Sex, and other life rituals, Part 1
Oct 15th 2009
Madeline HunterMadeline Hunter & When Goddesses Fall To Earth
Life is speeding up. The norms of society change more quickly today than in the past.
You would think that it would take many generations for the most basic rituals of life to change, but now they take at most one generation.
For example, somehow between the day I stopped dating and the day I became aware of how my students date, dating rituals changed radically. There is now all this group activity, with actual dates coming rarely and late in a forming relationship. I am still trying to figure out how a guy and girl who aren’t in the same group even get together. Then, of course, there is the common practice and acceptance of “hooking up” and “friends with benefits” which has nothing to do with dating at all.
Of course, sex has its own rituals and norms, no matter how two people get together, doesn’t it? Since this is a public blog, I am not going to get into which activities are now considered normal and expected between men and women that were not so considered for generations. For centuries, actually. However, about fifteen years ago I
figured out that in the dorms of America’s universities, kids were not only having this more adventurous sex (nothing new there, at all) but having sex when their roommates were in the room.
Talk about feeling like an old fogie! Being a curious sort, I had to ask about this, how that was handled, whether the roomie pretended to be asleep, etc. And I could not help wondering just how this became acceptable. Had it been going on all along, and I was too innocent to realize it? Or had, at some point, a lack of privacy just been tossed out as a reason not to have sex.
It seems that the universities of the world have begun to figure out this is going on. Tufts University recently passed a new rule that students don’t get to do this anymore. It seems they received some complaints from roomies. Ya think? The school where I teach would never make a rule like that. My school pretends students don’t have any sex anywhere, and all are virgins when they graduate.
In the olden days, a roommate’s sexual activity was handled differently. Roomie A asked roomie B to be absent for a few hours. However, if things happened more spontaneously, while roomie B was not around, roomie A left an indication on the door knob that roomie B should not enter for a while. At some schools, guys left a neck tie draped over the knob. As one pic here shows, at some schools anything will do now, like a dirty sock. (From neckties to dirty socks— how’s that for a change in rituals? At least this kid still uses a signal and expects/wants some privacy.)
One year in college my roomie and her boyfriend would have sex in our room. I would discretely leave and study elsewhere. It was inconvenient at times to give her the room, even irritating to have to absent my home so she could get it on, but I sure did not want to stay there while the ritual unfolded! I wonder if I would feel differently now, if I were twenty and living in a dorm.
Would you not mind if two people had sex while you were present and aware of it?
Do you have a sense of when all these things changed?
Do you require privacy for sex, or do you find it unnecessary? Do you fantasize about having sex where others can see or hear?
Do you think Tufts is being too fuddy-duddy with this new rule?
65 Comments »
65 Responses to “Sex, and other life rituals, Part 1”
B on 15 Oct 2009 at 4:08 am #
My fourteen year old brother was talking about it yesterday. Not about a dorm, but how he’d traveled once and people were just doing it on the beach — which was crowded. He said he was amazed how people could just get into it knowing other people were obviously aware.
We don’t do this dorm thing here (cultural, long story), but there was this once, and this stays between us, my mother brought this guy home — which would’ve been fine, what she does is her own darn business — except that it was when she was out with me. I was very, very upset and extremely uncomfortable. She has her own room and all, but I was bothered for being ‘aware’. So, yes, I would mind, thank you very much. I mean, REALLY?
I’m 21, so I have no idea when things changed. It was about like this when I became aware of how “life works”
I require privacy for sex, and, no, I have no fantasies of the sort. Maybe I’m too uptight about these things as my mother says (and says it’s because I’m not getting any, but that’s what I want her to think. Ha), but, yeah, privacy. And, good for Tufts and their students.
Bronte on 15 Oct 2009 at 5:19 am #
Wow, interesting topic. I had an experience recently in a shopping centre when I went into a stairwell and busted a couple getting it on. I had a few words to them and then left slamming the door. Having finished uni less than five years ago and having lived in share housing for the last 10 years I have to say that there is not much privacy in a share house. I have never actually had someone in the same room as me getting it on but I have definitely been able to hear exactly what was going on in the next room. I have even woken up with my bed moving to a certain rhythm (and I was not having any fun). I don’t know whether I have ever returned the favour for a flatmate – they certainly have never mentioned it if it was the case. I guess I just look on it as one of those things that happen. But the same room? I might have difficulty with that.
Kim on 15 Oct 2009 at 5:43 am #
I definitely have a problem with it. To me, sex is something that should be shared privately between two people who are in love. If you’ve got an itch they have battery operated itchers that don’t give you diseases.
As a mom of a college aged son; I’m extremely grateful that he’s living at home AND that there have been no mentions of girls.
Lori Handeland on 15 Oct 2009 at 5:52 am #
Same room, not for me. Ew.
Not sure when things changed but definitely sometime between when I was in college and now, so in the last thirty years. Snort. I guess I wasn’t paying attention.
I definitely require privacy for sex. Closed and locked doors even when there’s no one in the house but us. You never know when someone will decide to come home and ask for money.
I don’t think Tufts is being too fuddy-duddy. I’m just amazed that they have to make a rule like this. Would seem like common sense to me, but I guess not.
dbrown3400 on 15 Oct 2009 at 6:11 am #
No, Tufts, not fuddy-duddy at all. No, I do not fantasize about being the object of someones voyeurism. I prefer my privacy. Of course, now that I’m 63 and single, I get a LOT of privacy. LOL Maybe I’ll meet some Prince Charming. Who knows?
I’ll confess I have been in the same room of a cottage where two of my close friends were having sex. I did feel uncomfortable to the max but under the particular circumstances, I had nowhere else to go other than stand out in the rain. They were very much in love which made it somewhat tolerable and it was THEIR room. I was supposed to be asleep on the couch, but woke up despite their efforts to remain quiet.
LisaK on 15 Oct 2009 at 6:14 am #
Like B, I’m too young to know how or when this changed.
Huh, I can’t imagine (and I also don’t want to) being in the same room with two people who have sex. And not so much because it would bother me (it would, but, well, I’d just leave) but because I’d wonder why exactly they have to do this while I’m present and why they want to share their experience with me.
I think sex is about as private as one can get and so I absolutely wouldn’t want to have an audition.
Hmm, maybe I’m just imagining this, but I don’t think we have that roomie-problem in Germany. Could be that we’re too prude or anything (don’t think so, but who knows?), but I’ve never actually heard about this specific thing going on. I reckon that in such things, we’re rather traditional here. Good thing, that.
Freedom Writer on 15 Oct 2009 at 6:33 am #
In the late 70’s I had a college roommate who had her boyfriend in bed with her while I was in the room. We had already gone to bed when he showed up, but I was not asleep so when they climbed in together I got up, put on my bathrobe and went down to the lounge to watch tv. I don’t know what they did after I left, but they clearly did not care whether I was there or not.
I don’t think Tufts is being too fuddy duddy. No audience needed for me and I don’t care to be the audience for others.
Karen Rose on 15 Oct 2009 at 6:48 am #
Madeline, as the mom of a college kid and one in HS, I’m frequently appalled by the change in what’s sexually acceptable on campuses. This notion of “friends with benefits” simply floors me. I want to shake these kids and scream, “What is WRONG with you people?”
When I was teaching HS, I actually had to separate two girls in the hallway outside my classroom door. I think they were trying for shock value and to see how “prudish” I really was and because boys “think it’s hot.”
They were 16 and were in the FREAKING HALLWAY outside my classroom! It’s a combo middle school/HS. Seventh graders could easily have seen this.
I sent them to the principal’s office. You know, I really don’t care what they did. But I did care that they had no regard for those around them (including me) and no respect for themselves by doing it in the hallway, while they were supposed to be in my class, and where others could see – because they wanted to be seen.
I’m not sure when this changed. When I was in school, kids at least had the decency to hide under the bleachers.
Karen Rose on 15 Oct 2009 at 6:51 am #
PS – IMO, this is the frog in the boiling water. It didn’t just “change.” Media and social mores have changed around us so gradually that we’re not shocked like we might have otherwise been.
B on 15 Oct 2009 at 6:57 am #
You know, personally, I’m not against the friends with benefits or the idea of hook up at all. I mean, the way I see it, people do whatever they want to do. If they (I’m talking in general, and including myself in this, by the way) want to pick up someone random in a bar or a club, good for them. Go ahead. But, like Karen mentioned, they need to respect, at least, the people around them.
What you, or I, or Mary down the street do is no one business, and no one should have forced upon them knowing it, let alone seeing it.
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:10 am #
Bronte, I think many of us have lived in houses or apartments where you could hear it. The first apartment I shared with dh, the guy in the next one had a girl over one night. Turns out his bed was on the other side of the wall as our bed. So I heard a lot. The next morning, they were leaving while I was. She looked at me kind of oddly. I looked at her kind of oddly. She suspected she had been too noisy, LOL.
But they were not RIGHT THERE with us. I just find this odd, not caring if someone is there, studying or watching tv or whatever. I guess if roomies don’t get along, and one will not vacate for the other, this just develops. Sort of “well, this is my home and where else am I supposed to do this?”
Amy Scott on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:10 am #
Sex is something to be done in private. I find it very disrepectful for one roomate to put another roomate in that postion. I would never think of having sex in a public place, maybe I’m a prude, but I have never even thought about it.
I think that the media has changed how we view certain situations. There is so much sex and violence on tv, and in the music that young people listen too. I think kids are having sex at a younger age, and as a mother of a young daughter this scares me. I recently heard that a new trend is something called a rainbow party. At these party’s the girls all wear different colours of lipstick, and the boys try to see how many shades of lipstick they can accumulate on there privates. I learned of this from a friend who’s daughter is only 14 and in grade 9.
I remember at our HS we weren’t allowed to straddle the benches in the cafetria, or wear clothing that was at all revealling (no short shorts or belly/tank tops) and this was only 15 years ago.
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:11 am #
I am going to see if I can find the exact wording of the Tufts policy. From what I gather, it makes clear that it is not a “no sex in dorms” policy. It is very specific to this particular issue.
amy1242 on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:12 am #
I’m sorry, but that’s just rude! What happened to the gentlemen in our society? If a guy would have tried that when I was dating, I would have shown him the door. Seriously? They do this now? In front of people? Enough to make it an actual rule? Wow…stunned. So glad I grew up when I did.
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:12 am #
Amy, it is disrespectful. That is a good word. As for the Rainbow parties—-ewwwww
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:15 am #
Although I have heard that Cliinton’s odd distinction of what is sex and what isn’t is actually very common now. So what some oldsters would consider more intimate than regular old sex is considered less intimate by some younger people. Not a “home run” to use the old analogy, but just third base now.
Sheridan LA on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:16 am #
greetings from Wales! I have missed you all… well… a bit – it has been an amazing trip.
I had a roommate in college who liked to pick up men in bars.. a lot.. I woke up one night to the sounds of her and her newest conquest getting it on – we shared a bedroom. Seems another friend was drunk and using the living room to sleep, so she invited the guy into the bedroom. I moved out fairly soon after that.
I am all for people having fun.. but I don’t particularly care to have it going on in the same room. I’ll agree with the rest of the comments.. it is about courtesy and respect. Hormones are crazy things, but come on..
and I will admit it.. I have had a friend with benefits a few times..not all in all a bad thing.
LisaK.. just got in from Berlin… had a blast.
Course, I always do in Germany.
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:17 am #
amy1242, I’m more surprised it took this long for a school to make a rule. I think schools were either ignorant, or hoped roomies would just work it out. But like I said, I first learned about this 15 years ago. And I was like you—-really????? Stunned.
Pesky on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:17 am #
Well far be it for me to be the Miss Manners of the sex world…however I’m still thinking that sex is not meant to be a spectator sport. The porn industry obviously disagrees as does its millions of customers.
I am going to blame this trend on Beverly Hills 90210…not the new one, the original. Any show that a father (Spelling) puts his daughter (Spelling Jr) up decorating a christmas tree in silver hotpants that if they had been any briefer the world would have been her gynocologist is sending the wrong message. Things have evolved since then and now we have Gossip Girl which is talking about having a three way on TV.
When the media and entertainment handles sex so casually teens are going to get the message thta it is indeed the norm to do this.
I don’t care what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home. But I’m a big one on “the privacy of their own home.”.
As to Tufts, *snort*, It’s one thing to make a rule…it’s another to enforce it. *Knock, Knock* It’s the purity security! Open up!
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:19 am #
Karen R— actually, I have been told that it is a big problem in middle schools—Kids doing very intimage things in the school building. See Clinton reference above. I refused to believe it, but. . . . Just me being aghast again, and out of tune with reality?
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:24 am #
Pesky, good point about enforcement. I think they wanted to arm the roomies with a weapon in case the offending roomie won’t listen to reason. I mean, in most cases this gets worked out, I think. Roomie B says she is not comfortable with this, or leaves, or whatever. But I can also see it escalating to where Roomie B won’t leave because, damn it, she has a test to study for and it is her room too, and roomie A just says, well, fine, stay if you want, and etc. NOW, roomie B can officially complain and there is a policy for the housing admin to use when it becomes an issue. I mean, without this, if that roomie comes and complains, what was the housing administrator supposed to do? Talk to roomie A? So it gives roomie B some back up, I guess.
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:31 am #
Sheridan, tell us about your trip to Germany. Where did you go?
TrishD on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:32 am #
I know that people are very open about sex these days and while I can and will talk about sex with almost anyone (sorry mom, you’re not on that list) I do not want to be in the same room with anyone enjoying the activity nor do I want anyone besides my husband in the room with me. Call me crazy but IMHO sex is between 2 people and extras are not welcome.
Madeline, I’m not sure if things have changed in the sense of the “activities” that people are participating in, I think it’s more that people are willing to be open about things they do behind closed doors. I’m not too sure I can blame the media for the “trends”, maybe for the openness people feel about sex but not what they are doing. When I was in high school back in the ’80’s tweens and teenagers were having sex and getting pregnant, there were friends with benefits, boys who talked the talk and girls who they talked about… and that was the age of The Cosby Show and Growing Pains.
Karen Rose on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:33 am #
Guys, a note here. Rainbow parties are widely believed to be an urban myth, intended to stir up ire. There was a fictional YA novel that featured this idea, but from what I’ve read, there’s been no documented evidence that these parties exist. I think logistically even teenage boys might have an issue hanging on long enough to get a rainbow…
Having said that, there’s plenty of bad behavior out there.
TrishD on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:45 am #
Wow! Hot topic today, I think there were only 10 comments when I started writing mine.
I don’t think Tuffs is being too fuddy-duddy with their rule. I’m sure that it shocks some parents to think that their child may be going to Tuffs and that their roommate is having sex while they’re in the room because they know it’s not their kid having sex! College kids have sex. Yep, I said it, they have sex, shocking I know. It’s nice to see a university recognize that fact and put a rule in place that will protect the uncomfortable roommate. It’s not always easy to confront a roommate about problems and hopefully this rule will allow the roommates to discuss the sex in the room issue before it becomes a problem.
Janae on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:54 am #
I’m all for a bit of privacy, but there was a time when I was younger, I was more adventurous. However, it was never when someone else was around. The possibility of getting caught made it more exciting.
I don’t think things have really changed, other than we talk and hear about it more. Nearly 20 years ago I was attending a private, religous university, where they have an honor code, etc. One of the girls on my floor and her boyfriend were expelled for having sex in his room. Obviously, his roommate snitched on him, and Tufts is going to have to rely on snitches to enforce it. I think if roommates are respectful, it’s just not going to be an issue.
Sheridan LA on 15 Oct 2009 at 7:54 am #
Madeline.. it has been a lovely 3 weeks which included Cardiff, Wales… Inverness, Aberdeen and Edinburgh, Scotland, Paris and Berlin. It has been outstanding.
Freshechelle on 15 Oct 2009 at 9:00 am #
I used to think I missed a lot by commuting to college. Not feeling gyped any more. Thanks, Madeline.
Sheridan, enjoy that last few days of your trek. Come home safely with lots of fab stories of international incidents!
Rachel Gibson on 15 Oct 2009 at 9:02 am #
Same room? That’s gross.
I had a feeling that attitudes toward sex had changed about ten years ago when my middle daughter was 14 and told me that oral sex wasn’t sex. She told me at the dinner table. I choked and sputtered and assured her that oral sex WAS indeed sex. She told me that I was just old and times had changed. The whole Bill Clinton/Monica thing was going on at the time. If I could have jumped through the tv screen, I would have choked Bill Clinton for his whole meaning of “is” bullsh##.
From that day forward I rammed self respect into my daughter’s little brain and convinced her that if some boy told her oral sex wasn’t sex, he was just nasty and thought she was so stupid that she’d believe him. And no one wants to be slutty AND stupid.
Claudia Dain on 15 Oct 2009 at 9:16 am #
Ditto what Rachel said, and double ditto the slutty and stupid part.
Gang, when I was a freshman in college in 1974 (dating myself! forget this date immediately!) my roommate had sex with her boyfriend in our room. With me present. I had nowhere else to go. I needed my sleep. I pulled the covers over my head and tried to sleep through it. He practically lived in our tiny room. And this was a woman’s dorm! He was breaking every rule by being there at night, but she begged me not to tell, so I didn’t. I changed roommates at the semester instead.
evlqn on 15 Oct 2009 at 9:24 am #
Oral sex isn’t really sex??? Since when? and why do they call it “sex” if it’s not?
Spectator sports are baseball, football, soccer, ping-pong even, nowhere would I include sex, thank you very much!
I don’t think I’m a prude but I wouldn’t want the world watching me or mine having a celebration of the intimate variety. I don’t even get dressed or undressed in front of my windows unless the curtains are closed. I went topless on the beach when I was younger and the girls were holding up their end of the bargain, but they have moved south now and lost a LOT of perk, so I don’t do that anymore.
Urban myth or not, the thought of a rainbow party is gross! I don’t even share drinks with people I know and like, so the chance of me sharing that are absolutely nil!
Pesky on 15 Oct 2009 at 9:25 am #
Good point Madeline. You can’t say “We told you not to do this.” unless you tell them not to do it.
Rachel, OMG, the whole “I didn’t have sex with that woman…” thing has driven me nuts since it happened.
Not so much that he did, but the fact that he felt it was better to degrade her and play semantics. Man up!
Julia London on 15 Oct 2009 at 9:42 am #
I dated a guy in college who thought it would be quite all right to have sex in his dorm room with his roommate not five feet away. He was wrong on two counts: that it would be okay to have sex with me, and that it would be okay to have sex with me while his roommate looked on. Loser.
Sheridan, I based Perils of Pursuing a Prince–loosely–on Powys Castle. Have you been there yet?
colinfirthfan on 15 Oct 2009 at 9:59 am #
I guess I’m a fuddy duddy coz I definitely don’t want to see anyone having sex and definitely not in my room with me there. **shudder** . I’m all for privacy.
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 10:00 am #
Claudia, Tufts has this rule just for you and situations like that, I think. It is easy to say “well, just say no and tell her to get him out of there” but the social dynamics at that age, and in dorms, are not simple.
Unfortunately, your testimony suggests that this is not new at all, but perhaps only new in the degree of it. Or my awareness of it. And I have already forgotten that date that suggests as much .
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 10:01 am #
Sheridan, your trip sounds yummy. I am so envious.
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 10:02 am #
Sheridan, if someone had one day in Berlin where would you tell them to visit?
JZ on 15 Oct 2009 at 10:10 am #
I learned how to sleep with my walkman on my sophmore year of college, and to look straigh ahead when getting out of bed in the morning, just because you never know. It’s not fun, but it’s all sort of part of the experience. Me, I’m a more private girl, my roommate, she wasn’t so much
Sheridan LA on 15 Oct 2009 at 10:11 am #
Julia, I have visited Caerphilly and Cardiff Castles, as well as Uruquot (On Loch Ness.. cannot remember spelling at the moment) but not Powys…how could I miss that?!?! Guess I will have to come back, eh?
Madeline… I had 3 days in Berlin… Most of the sites are fairly close together. You can visit the Brandenburg Gate, some of the last bits of the wall and Checkpoint Charlie fairly easy… We went to the Fernsehturm Tower, but found there would be another 1.5 hour wait to go up.. so we missed it. We did go to Viktoriapark, which gives a lovely view of the city. My friends live in the Kreuzburg area, which was really quite fun and charming. I also recommend the museums there, there are lots (though most closed on Mondays) and a stop for currywurst.
Rosa Lario on 15 Oct 2009 at 10:15 am #
Okay, this is the first I’ve heard of a rainbow party, and I just have to say: Ick! As a mother, I’m disgusted. 14 is way too young for that kind of sexual exploration. {Sigh…}
B on 15 Oct 2009 at 10:48 am #
My brother was telling me yesterday that a friend of him showed a video of a guy from another school having sex with a girl to everyone. I asked him how the hell the guy got this video. The answer? The guy filmed himself on the phone and passed it on to his friends on bluetooth, which passed on to their friends, and apparently, the whole 15 year old community in my city has heard and ’seen’ about it.
The kids themselves want other people to ’see’ their conquests. Makes them more powerful? Go figure!
evlqn on 15 Oct 2009 at 11:03 am #
What happened to days when if a guy even whispered he had done the deed with a girl all of her brothers, cousins and friends had a “little talk” with his face??? I’m glad my sons weren’t like that and still aren’t. Goddess help the guy who does that to one of my grand-daughters, my son has already started digging the dating hole in the back yard anyway.
Claudia Dain on 15 Oct 2009 at 11:08 am #
Madeline, I do think the degree of it has changed. The entire culture has changed, which cultures always do. I don’t happen to think this particular change is a good one. Not only is it rude, it’s demeaning. Why agree to be demeaned? I’ve never understood that.
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 11:36 am #
LOL, evlqn! I am 13 years younger than my brother. He would make it a point to be around when young men picked me up. He would smile at them but it was one of those smiles, if you know what I mean. Unspoken communication with the poor kid, and none of it especially friendly. But the dating hole is funny, and he sure implied as much.
evlqn on 15 Oct 2009 at 11:45 am #
Honest to Pete, my dad would have his gun cleaning kit on the table when guys showed up for a date. Coming from hunting country everyone got the message.
Amy Scott on 15 Oct 2009 at 11:59 am #
K-Ro, I hadn’t heard about the Urban Myth thing… I will have to pass that along to my friend. hopefully, this doesn’t happen, and she has nothing to worry about.
I want my daughters to grow up respecting their bodies. I think peer pressure has a lot to do with young girls giving up their virginity early, and hopefully I can teach them that saying no doesn’t make you uncool. I know this is easier said then done, especially with outside influences.
Sabrina Jeffries on 15 Oct 2009 at 12:02 pm #
I have a very vivid memory of going back to my boyfriend’s apartment (NOT hubby) to find his roommate happily engaged in sex with his girlfriend. They said hi, and seemed perfectly okay with our presence, then got on with what they were doing. I confess that this was during my “I-am-such-a-bad-girl-Woot!” period, so it didn’t bother me.
But I’ve never done it with an audience. Would it bother me? I don’t know. I doubt my husband would consider it, though–he doesn’t even leave our bedroom naked for any reason. He wears a robe when there’s no one around but the two of us.
Me, I’m immodest as hell, so I can’t speak to what I would do. I don’t THINK it would bother me, but I didn’t think it would bother me to name a character after my son either … until I did and got grossed out when the heroine called the hero “Nicholas” while they were kissing. (Marcus, the Viscount Draker, started out as a Nicholas … until the first kiss). So I may have some prudish tendencies in there lurking after all.
TrishD on 15 Oct 2009 at 12:45 pm #
Sabrina, I started reading an erotic novel and the female character’s name was Abby, same as my daughter. As soon as the character got asked out and accepted a date with 2 men I had to put the book down.
Gwynlyn MacKenzie on 15 Oct 2009 at 1:05 pm #
Everytime I hear the term “having sex”, I want to ask, “Would you like fries with that?” So many young people selling themselves short. I can only pray they will discover the intense, almost metaphysical, joy of “making love.” They’re settling for fast food when they could have haute cuisine. (And yes, I’ve had this conversation with my crew. Worked to some degree, but socialogical pressures weigh more than Mom’s “it’s worth the wait” talk.)
LauraR on 15 Oct 2009 at 1:18 pm #
Nope, don’t want to be in the same room or even the same house with others having sex when I can hear them. ick.
I checked out snopes.com for the rainbow party but they didn’t have an entry. They are my go-to site for urban myths. But then I checked wikipedia. Here’s the link,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_party_%28sexuality%29. The entry says that this type of ‘party’ was first mentioned on the Jerry Springer show. go figure!
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 1:19 pm #
JZ, so you lived it. I don’t know about it being part of the experience. Maybe now it is. I dunno if I would take it in stride, though.
B, in my area something similar happened with some list the boys in one high school cooked up and spread around. Then someone’s mom and dad got wind of it (as in some girl’s mom and dad). Major drama ensued, school board was dragged in, law suit was filed, newspapers had a field day, etc etc etc.
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 1:23 pm #
LaurenR–well, if it was first on Jerry S, we can count on its veracity, lol. I hope it is an urban myth. Really. We are talking vulnerable kids here. These girls are only half-jelled in middle school or even high school, for all their assumed sophistication.
So Sabrina, this was a studio apartment, with no other room? I have to assume the guy you were with was sure hoping you would want to get it on too. I’m trying to picture a healthy early twenties guy, present in a room where there was sex going on, not getting turned on. . . .no, that picture is not coming to me at all.
Judy F on 15 Oct 2009 at 2:24 pm #
It would bother me for a couple to be having sex while I was in the room… A remember being at a Bar in Columbus and these two girls were going at it, they bouncer made them leave. There is a time and a place for stuff.
Another thing I don’t get is the sexting, when you send nekkid pictures to other people. Are these people so clueless that they don’t think the sendee won’t pass it on? And the amount of stars making sex tapes, that is never a good idea. LOL
Sabrina Jeffries on 15 Oct 2009 at 2:56 pm #
Madeline, it wasn’t a studio apartment. There were three guys living there, and they each took a room. The living room just happened to be the one the door opened into, and that was one of the guys’ rooms. We went to my boyfriend’s room. Fade to black–hey, my mom might read this!
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 4:50 pm #
Aw, don’t fade to black, Sabrina. We won’t tell anyone, hee, hee.
evlqn on 15 Oct 2009 at 4:58 pm #
Yeah, Sabrina you are with about 200 of your closest friends. You can trust US!!
Karen Hawkins on 15 Oct 2009 at 5:16 pm #
Madeline, great topic! And no, I don’t think Tufts is being fuddy duddy. It’s always good to write rules to the common denominator – in this case, roommate rights – which allows students to make complaints of they want to, and thus get relief from what could be an untenable situation.
I just can’t believe this situation wasn’t covered by some sort of existing rule, but then again, dorm rules change and mores change and so, yeah, maybe it needed to be explicitly stated.
Sheesh, I had no idea ’sex in front of a roommate’ was a common issue. I just can’t imagine that. I’ve never had anyone suggest it — when I was in college, it was all about ’so and so won’t be back for the day/weekend/week’ and never ‘Don’t worry; he sleeps with his walkman and won’t hear a thing.’
Tooooo weird. I just want to ask, “Ladies, don’t you have STANDARDS?”
Oh no! I sound like my mother. Great.
Btw, has anyone noticed that high school kids don’t ‘date’ any more? They ‘go with’ someone or they stay single. They don’t ‘date’ for a while and THEN ‘go with’ someone. It’s straight to ‘go with’ or nothing. That seems very odd to me.
Ok, I’ll stop talking now before I start to channel my grandma, too.
Pesky on 15 Oct 2009 at 5:28 pm #
Karen: I had to take management training classes on how to manage this generation and there was a very interesting theory presented that might ba applied to their dating habits as well.
Our generation was raised with with a work and wait for a result type of mentality. If you wanted knowledge about something you had to wait at least long enough to get to the library. Entertainment, you had to wait to travel to the movie theatre. Rewards were given after work, we didn’t have video games that rewarded us instantaneously. Push a button, books, movies, entertainment, banking, email.
The current generation is sped up, they are used to immediate rewards. They are of a push button mentality, therefore they are either 100% engaged or not engaged at all. It’s an interesting theory. I’m not sure it applies to all kids of this generation, but who knows.
evlqn on 15 Oct 2009 at 5:57 pm #
My sister has a theory, our children are being raised on sound bites. If it takes more than 30 seconds to get the point across you have lost them to something else.
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 6:53 pm #
Karen, that new dating thing you notice with high school is all part of the group thing I mentioned in my post. All that early checking each other out and preliminary flirting and even early physical stuff isn’t done on what you and I think of as dates. i.e. one on one time. So since it is usually within a group, I suspect the group plays a role, like arbitrators or something. I mean, the collective knows and sees it all, and probably sticks in its two cents sometimes. I think this ends at some point, like when people go to work and have careers. I’m not sure it can be sustained then. One wonders how the transition is made to more old-fashioned dating then.
Madeline Hunter on 15 Oct 2009 at 6:56 pm #
evlqn, I think you are right. I have noticed forever that when I am trying to “have a conversation” with the sons, about them in particular, and about the sorts of things a mom raising sons might need to say, they zone out pretty fast (which drives me nuts.)
Patricia Barraclough on 15 Oct 2009 at 10:36 pm #
Throw me in the fuddy-duddy pile. Yes I need privacy and would never think of “doing it” with someone else around. When you think of it, that really is a minority viewpoint historically and in many cases today. When nearly everyone slept in the castle keep, there certainly was no privacy and any snuggling was done nest to your 50 closest friends. Early homes in this country and in many third world countries today, had one or two rooms for the family to live in. Sleeping was usually done by all in one room.
Casual sex does not involve a close, special relationship, so there is little emotional investment. I think you are more likely to want to protect and shelter a close relationship and would want more privacy. As for group dating, it is a safe way to go out and explore how to relate and interact with our peers. Finding out who you are and how you interact with others is necessary before you can have a close personal relationship like dating.
Thanks for the thought provoking post.
Kat on 16 Oct 2009 at 3:05 pm #
Major victim here from a former college roommate — I pretended to be asleep at the time because I knew his dorm was 100x worse than ours, but the next day after he left, I let her know in no uncertain terms that it was not to happen ever again. I didn’t care what he said, or what their situation was. She could keep it in her pants.
My roommates and I usually had signs, or we would go sleep in the room without a roommate. My last roommate had a boyfriend who’s roommate was always out of town, so she would go to his room, and mine would come upstairs. We respected each other’s study time though, since it was an honors college.
Unfortunately, it’s happening younger and younger — my 13 yr old SIL got propositioned by a boy at her school and told him no flat out, so now he’s mad at her. So sad. . .
Cindi on 18 Oct 2009 at 2:46 pm #
Why do I have this vision of creepy little sex-under-a-blanket hanky-panky where only the boy gets off and then the roommate-viewable fun is over? Why doncha wait, girls, until there is the time and place for you to have some fun too!
Lauren on 21 Oct 2009 at 12:59 am #
As a 28-year-old graduate student with very high standards — sorry fuddies, but it’s just not that big of a deal. Furthermore, it wasn’t a big deal to some portion of all generations alive during the last century. Hippie porn and older memoirs prove that 1:1 sex in the company of others is nothing newor eekworthy.
I never had to share a room because I went to an elite private undergrad with lots of single-room dorms, but I’ve certainly done things in shared rooms on trips and I’ve been the singleton, too. Courtesy is trying to be as quiet as humanly possible and getting undies back on before the blanket is moved. Courtesy, in my case, also involves paddling the pink canoe discreetly because it’s terribly exciting to be that close to sex one isn’t having.
Fretting about Clinton’s definition of sex is so tired. Oral sex is an intimate act, but it is fundamentally different from sex because both people are not experiencing genital-to genital stimulation at the same time. It’s not called “giving head” just because the mouth is in the head – it’s “head” because one person has far more clarity. Even during mutual oral sex, those involved can’t surrender or imbalance ensues.