Let Me Tell You a [Good?] Story…
Jul 27th 2008
Nicole JordanOn Writing!
Since this is the week of the crazy, huge, wonderful, neurotic, instructional, frenzied RWA conference in San Francisco, I thought we should talk about something dear to our hearts: Storytelling.
Actually I picked this topic because I just read an article in a chapter newsletter by an agent who also teaches writing. At the end of a class, he was asked a question by a student which he said stumped him. “How do I know if my story is any good?”
Reportedly the agent puzzled over his answer for several days and then came up with a laundry list of basic elements that, in his opinion, all good stories have – Characters, Plot, Setting, Narration, Dialogue. Then he described how to evaluate each element to see if it meets a certain standard of excellence.
I think I disagree. Now, I know that the definition of “good” and “bad” can be extremely subjective. But for me, a good story isn’t a collection of elements that I can check off. Instead, I call a story “good” because of the overall impact it has on me as a reader: If it holds my interest. If it fulfills my expectations for the genre. If it punches all the right emotional buttons. If it gives me a satisfying reading experience.
To be more descriptive…. A thriller thrills. A mystery intrigues. A fiction novel often poses questions and explores answers. A romance makes me laugh and cry and sigh with hope for the lovers’ happy ending.
Most particularly, I call a story “good” if it can make me forget that I’m a
writer and just sweep me up in the journey. I love it when that happens!
44 Comments »
44 Responses to “Let Me Tell You a [Good?] Story…”
Maggie on 28 Jul 2008 at 3:04 am #
Aloha Ya’ll, I joined a few weeks ago and I have randomly posted. I am soo enjoying this blog. Thanks for letting me come and learn, grow, and share.
I am a reader not a writer (it’s on my 101 list of things to do before I die). But for me a “good” story lets me suspend reality for oh-so-many pages. I want to forget the mundane. I want to let go of the husband, the kids, the dog, the bills, the deadlines, the commitments. I want to indulge in romance, I want to fall in love with both the heroine and the hero. I want to be the little fly on the wall that hears all the parts and champions the relationship even though the characters aren’t getting “it.” I want to feel the passion until it overwhelms me. I want to rejoice when the hero and heroine fall madly, deeply, completely in love. When all is correct and right in their universe then I am satisfied.
And THAT is a good story!
Margay on 28 Jul 2008 at 5:03 am #
If it keeps you awake at night. Either reading, writing, or thinking about what you’re going to write. That’s usually a pretty good sign - to me, at least - that a book is good, whether I’m reading it or writing it. If the book is so powerful that it’s all consuming - if that’s all you can think about even when you’re not working on it - that’s a good sign. If you try hard to resist the urge, if you’re reading the book, not to skip to the end to make sure everyone’s going to be fine because you can’t read fast enough to get there, that’s a sign it’s good. If you’re writing something and it sends chills down your spine and you itch to share it with someone else, then that’s a good sign. If someone tells you they want to publish it, that’s a good sign. And if someone tells you they want to read it, then you’ve got to know that it’s good.
Lisa H on 28 Jul 2008 at 6:31 am #
When my emotions are caught up in the story, I know its a good one.
I also like continuously discovering layers in the characters’ personalities. Little by little as the story unfolds we learn more and more about what motivates them, their past pains and their deepest longings. Fears are brought against desires until love wins out in the end.
No story is good in my opinion without the HEA. I don’t care how “Literarily” (is that a word?) it may be, without the HEA, I’m not interested.
Kate on 28 Jul 2008 at 6:33 am #
For me, a good book engages my emotions. It makes me laugh, cry but hopefully not get frustrated. I thought that non-fiction wouldn’t have much reaction on my part, but lately I find that it does. It usually engages my disgust, anger, or frustration. Then I move on to romance and have fun and forget the non fiction anxiety.
Great question.
Karen Hawkins on 28 Jul 2008 at 6:49 am #
Oh Nicole, what a great question!
Maggie, welcome and glad to see you post!
I agree with you guys — a story is good when I am able to lose myself in it. There’s something so relaxing and decadent about ‘being’ in someone else’s life for a while.
I also know a story is good if, at the last page, I feel like I’m leaving old friends and don’t want to see it end. If I feel as if I’ve gotten to know the characters that well, I know the story has worked for me.
SheridanLA on 28 Jul 2008 at 7:55 am #
Welcome, Maggie!
A good story for me is one I stay up late reading - not even realizing it is 2 am. Whether that be a character driven story or a plot driven story. It is something I want more of - makes me curious to see what happens and how things play out.
Bad story..if I start rolling my eyes and skipping pages. This can be from the plot being ridiculous or the characters being ridiculous.
SheridanLA on 28 Jul 2008 at 7:56 am #
BTW - nice summer ensembles, Goddesses. I love Nicole’s purse.
Kathy/Cookie on 28 Jul 2008 at 8:35 am #
Welcome Maggie!
A good story for me is one that pulls me in and won’t let go until I turn the last page. And usually want more!
I don’t know exactly what it is that grabs me. It’s different with each author I find. A rip roaring funny laugh riot with lots ‘o’ steamy bits, or nail biting well into the night suspense.
I’m usually grabbed by the first sentence or paragraph. Not to give added pressure onto Goddess authors, but if that first introduction to the story isn’t attention grabbing, I put it down. I do give it many more chances with favoured authors though , realising it’s usually my mood that determines what holds my attention.
that muddy it up for you?lol
cail on 28 Jul 2008 at 8:38 am #
I think Maggie hit it right on the button (Welcome Maggie!). I want a book to take me away. If my brain goes off in a million directions then it’s just not going to do it for me. Also, if its REALLY good then I’m not going to want to put it down at all.
Nicole Jordan on 28 Jul 2008 at 8:47 am #
Welcome, Maggie! This is a great place to hang out, and we hope you post often!
And I’m so glad y’all feel the same way about getting caught up in the story.
Margay, great point about writing… if thinking about it keeps you up at night.
Nicole Jordan on 28 Jul 2008 at 8:51 am #
As for the purse, thanks for the compliment, Sheridan! These are our summer duds.
LiasH and Kate, Engaging my emotions is probably what I want most out of a romance.
And KarenH, I love your line about leaving old friends. That’s a great way to describe the character element.
Freshechelle on 28 Jul 2008 at 8:59 am #
A good story is so subjective and I’m frustrated that my close friends don’t like the same books I do. A story is a good story when I imagine what happens to the characters after the story ends. I like an unexpected but plausible deviation from the norm. HEA isn’t mandatory. In fact, I’m adding Edith Wharton’s House of Mirth to my TBRe-read pile because of its unHEA. I’m convinced that Lily Bart is going to realize her fault in her logic but she never does. I keep reading it thinking she’ll change. Is that the definition of insanity?
Kim on 28 Jul 2008 at 9:55 am #
Welcome Maggie!
I agree with the others. I need to be taken into the story, swept away from life so that only this adventure exsists.
Great question, Nicole!
Margaret Garland on 28 Jul 2008 at 10:15 am #
I can only say ditto to all of the above. I just finished a good story. It was Susan Elizabeth Phillip’s “Kiss an Angel” aka the circus one. I have read this book at least 4 times now. I started it Saturday. I was too tired to read after I got home from the football game. I picked it up about 8 last night and started reading. Next think I knew I had finished the story and it was 3am!
Now that makes a good story for me. That I can get involved when I’ve aleady read it multiple times and the passage of time doesn’t exist. I am there. At the circus. At Vauxhall’s. At the ranch. Wherever it is, I’m there if it’s a good story.
I have to like the characters & care about what happens to them. When I don’t, it’s pretty much not a good story for me. Even when another person thinks it’s the greatest novel ever written.
And welcome, Maggie!
Margaret Garland on 28 Jul 2008 at 10:17 am #
Have a great time in SF, Goddesses. I have the fix in for sunshine and mild temps for you.
Take care. I’ll be thinking of you all this weekend. And good luck to the RITA nominees.
evlqn on 28 Jul 2008 at 10:25 am #
Welcome, Maggie
I agree that if a story engages me to the point I am reading it far into the night, getting up to finish it in the bathroom or kitchen, I’m reading a winner.
I have been known to pull over to the side of the road to read a really good book. Do I have a problem yet ?
I want to care about my characters, major and minor. That is one of the reasons I like series, because I can catch up on what is happening with old friends.
Suzanne, I see you are going to be in Beaverton on the 5th of August, I hope I can make it up from Eugene to see you. Have fun in SF this week.
Everyone have a great time, even though I can’t be there.
dbrown3400 on 28 Jul 2008 at 10:35 am #
As a reviewer, I do look for the five elements mentioned by the agent, but it is important that they move the story forward. If one element is poorly written, it drags the rest of the story down regardless of how good the remainder is IMO. Even a plot driven story must have believable and interesting characters just as a character driven story must have a convincing plot.
I’m so used to this approach that it’s carried through to me as a reader, but a really good book will carry me into to its own world and take me away while I’m reading it. It grabs my attention and engages my emotions. Like Margaret, I can re-read a book, and re-visit that place time and again.
I agree a romance must have a HEA but I enjoy books outside the genre without it. I do like everything tied up neatly though.
Welcome aboard, Maggie.
dbrown3400 on 28 Jul 2008 at 10:37 am #
Will enjoy SF with you through cyberspace.
Julia London on 28 Jul 2008 at 11:09 am #
Hi Maggie! you’re not my editor, Maggie, are you?
I know a story is good when I don’t “notice” how the writer is doing it. When I get caught up in the story and forget about the words, its good.
Another measure — that pesky to-do list does not enter my brain. I don’t hear laundry calling me, or in the middle of a paragraph, remember that the dog needs to be fed. Those things tend to drag me out of a story that hasn’t grabbed me and its hard for me to pick up again.
Kari on 28 Jul 2008 at 11:55 am #
Ditto to what Maggie said. She hit the nail on the head.
I read to escape my “normal” life. I want to be whisked away to a far away land/space/time where I don’t have a care in the world. A good book does this for me.
Welcome, Maggie!!
Louisa Cornell on 28 Jul 2008 at 12:08 pm #
I think our new buddy Maggie really said it all. A good story should take you on a magic journey that shuts out the world and even the memory of reality for a while. A good story is one where I am talking to the characters and giving them advice and rooting for them and groaning when they do stupid things because I have been captivated by them and feel like they are members of my family. I love descriptions where I feel like I am walking through that scene.
LisaK on 28 Jul 2008 at 12:24 pm #
Welcome Maggie!
Now that’s the just punishment for me posting so late - I can’t contribute something new AND intelligent! You ladies said it all. See me as the agreeing and nodding-her-head-wisely-one today!
Lisa H on 28 Jul 2008 at 1:00 pm #
Louisa I am rooting for you girlfriend! That Golden Heart is gonna be yours!!!!
PJ on 28 Jul 2008 at 3:00 pm #
Welcome, Maggie!
Like the others have said, a good book will engage my interest and emotions to the point where I become so immersed in the story that I lose awareness of everything else. A good book will still have me glued to it two hours after my bedtime. A great book will have me on the couch flipping pages two hours after bedtime *and* an hour after my bladder says its time to visit the bathroom! Not much stands between me and the bathroom except a great romance novel.
The most recent book I read that had that kind of impact on me was an arc of Teresa Medeiros’s SOME LIKE IT WICKED. It kept me up way past my bedtime, touched all my emotions - as I wrote in my review it made me laugh, cry, cheer and sigh - and the characters have such a firm grip on my heart that they’ve already called me back to re-read it twice.
PJ on 28 Jul 2008 at 3:01 pm #
Ditto on the Good Luck wishes, Louisa! Have a safe journey and a wonderful time!
Nicole Jordan on 28 Jul 2008 at 3:43 pm #
A great book will have me on the couch flipping pages two hours after bedtime *and* an hour after my bladder says its time to visit the bathroom! Not much stands between me and the bathroom except a great romance novel.
LOL, PJ! I think that’s a great description!!
Nicole Jordan on 28 Jul 2008 at 3:48 pm #
>>> I know a story is good when I don’t “notice” how the writer is doing it. When I get caught up in the story and forget about the words, its good.
Me, too, Julia! I think that’s because I’ve written so many pages that I want someone else do do the work, lol. And then there are the writers whose beautiful words and emotions I just want to savor.
The absolutely one thing I CANNOT tolerate is present tense. I go to the store. I see the car swerving. My brain just wants to rewrite every single sentence. I can’t even get through one page of a story written in present tense. It’s just too dang frustrating.
Suzanne Enoch on 28 Jul 2008 at 4:17 pm #
Well, this sounds silly, but I know I’ve written a good book (in my mind, anyway), if at some point I make myself cry. I always feel like Joan Wilder, but that’s the tipping point for me. *g*
Judy F on 28 Jul 2008 at 4:25 pm #
Welcome Maggie
A good story for me is one I still pick up after I have finished it just to read another section or two. Sometimes I even hug the book when I am done. I know it sounds silly but Its like Ah that was so good. LOL
A good story for me is one that I can’t wait to get home to pick it up again or stay up late.
Nicole Jordan on 28 Jul 2008 at 5:30 pm #
Suzanne, what a wonderful way to judge your own work! I think making yourself cry is the sign of great emotion, which I love.
>>>Sometimes I even hug the book when I am done.
Judy, that is a perfectly lovely sentiment! Love it! I have a bunch of those on my keeper shelf.
Nicole Jordan on 28 Jul 2008 at 5:32 pm #
Also, I’ve always considered my “keepers” as books I plan to go back and reread again. So that’s probably a good definition of a good book for me, too. One that I know I’ll read over and over again. Judy, you jogged that thought for me.
Sheridan LA on 28 Jul 2008 at 6:41 pm #
ooh.. I am with you on the present tense!! I hate that!!
I also get totally distracted with the misuse of words.. there was one I started the other day where they misused a word.. that is often usd incorrectly, but this one was not only written in incorrectly, it was not even the right definition… it is a quantity, a singular quantity, folks.. not a jumble of things, not a mess, etc..
I could not get passed it.. I thought about it for pages.. reread it.. then got irritated with other things in the book.. had to put it down.
Mind you, I am not the perfectionist with grammar, etc.. but some things bug the heck out of me. In other words.. don’t use the big words if you don’t really know what they mean.
and how in the heck did that not get red penned by the editor?!?!?
sorry.. I have to let it go. I know.
Margaret Garland on 28 Jul 2008 at 6:41 pm #
Nicole said “The absolutely one thing I CANNOT tolerate is present tense.”
Oh me, too, Nicole! Neither do I like first person. One reason I’ve never read Janet Evanovich. I know many people are crazy about her books, but I just can’t get past page 1.
Oh well. To each her own.
Margaret Garland on 28 Jul 2008 at 6:43 pm #
So, Sheridan, what was the word? Don’t leave me hanging here.
Sheridan LA on 28 Jul 2008 at 7:08 pm #
myriad.
Sheridan LA on 28 Jul 2008 at 7:09 pm #
sorry, forgot to put that in the original post..
ladydawgfan on 28 Jul 2008 at 9:45 pm #
I recently finished a book that did what the ever-so-wise Maggie described. I was emotionally connected to the characters from the get-go and so into the book that I actually stopped and re-read some beautifully written chapters before going on (a first for me). The book was my ARC of Julia’s upcoming Sept. release, “The Book of Scandal.” Pre-order it, folks!! I can’t say it loudly enough!!
Amazing book, Julia. Simply amazing!! *stands, applauds*
Sabrina Jeffries on 28 Jul 2008 at 10:24 pm #
What Julia said. And Maggie said. And YOU said, Nicole. A story is good if it sweeps me away. If it makes me feel something–that punch to the gut or wild laughter or terror. That’s all it takes for me.
Now I’m off to RWA!
Louisa Cornell on 28 Jul 2008 at 10:24 pm #
Lisa H, thank you so much! Lets hope you are psychic!!! I am flying out tomorrow!
Nicole Jordan on 28 Jul 2008 at 11:06 pm #
LadyDF, I’m so glad about Julia’s book! Can’t wait to read it.
Louisa, keeping fingers crossed for you!
And everyone else who’s going to RWA, have a wonderful, safe trip and come back with lots of good stories to tell all us goddesses who’re staying behind on Mt. Oly!
Maggie on 29 Jul 2008 at 3:28 am #
@Julie London…nope, not your editor.
About present tense/first person: I like Janet Evanovich, I think she is about the only person who can do the present tense/first person…but in general I don’t like it either!
Warmest Aloha for all the kind welcomes! Mahalo Nui Loa! (Thank you very much)
Terri Farrell on 03 Aug 2008 at 1:27 am #
As an avid romance reader what makes a “good” story for me is the instantaneous connection I feel to the characters and the story itself.
For me, when the characters are realistic, compassionate, funny, honest, thought provoking, like able, and well defined, it allows me to easily settle into fulfilling my expectations of the reading experience.
I have been an avid romance reader for over forty years and have seen many changes within the romance industry. Many of my favorite authors
are still writing, while others have either retired, passed away or simply
are no longer writing. Yet, the stories they left behind in the books they’ve written still have an impact on me and many other readers of today.
While there are many exciting twists and turns an author can take us on each and every time we read one of their books if there is no emotional honesty and realism in the story than the it isn’t as enjoyable and does
not fulfill my expectations as a reader.
Terri Farrell on 03 Aug 2008 at 1:40 am #
As an avid romance reader what makes a “good” story for me is the instantaneous connection I feel to the characters and the story itself.
For me, when the characters are realistic, compassionate, funny,
honest, thought provoking, like able, and well defined, it allows me
to easily settle into fulfilling my expectations of the reading experience.
I have been an avid romance reader for over forty years and have seen many changes within the romance industry. Many of my favorite authors
are still writing, while others have either retired, passed away or simply
are no longer writing. While there are many exciting twists and turns
an author can take me on each and every time I read one of their books
if there is no emotional honesty and realism in their stories than it simply
isn’t enjoyable or satisfying. For the stories one leaves behind in the books they’ve written should have an impact on the readers.
Alice Faye on 03 Aug 2008 at 3:37 pm #
I am a reader first and a writer of Fan Fiction way down the list. I write about a band I love and their frontman.
But what makes a good story for me is, once I read a line I can close my eyes and I can see it. Bad is when after reading two chapters I can’t do a third. You know when you can’t get anything out of the characters they don’t talk to you. That is when I close the book. I might come back to it or I might give it to someone else to read. I average about 6 books a week, so there isn’t much I put down for long.
Alice Faye