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He just became a fox.

May 13th 2008RachelG
RachelGGoddess Grins

In the book I’m writing, the heroine has been married to a man considerably older than herself. Think Anna Nicole Smith and J. Howard Marshall. But one of the differences between my heroine and Anna (one among many) is that she doesn’t lie to herself that the marriage was all about love.

So in researching character motivations for the book, I’ve read numerous articles written about women who married older men. None of them would come right out and say they married for money. But it wasn’t as if they were marrying men who live on social security and have to work part time as Walmart greeters. A noble and worthy profession, indeed. Just not very high paying. In the articles the women would say stuff like, “I was married once or twice or three times and finally found my soul mate in Harold.” I finally had to stop reading the articles because I was rolling my eyes so much, I was getting migraines.

Now, I’m just going to admit up front that I don’t believe in soul mates. I know I’m a romance writer and I’m probably going to get slapped around for not believing, but it’s all just too overly dramatic and gooey for me. It also implies that there is one true love for each person, and if the soul mate dies, that’s it. I much prefer to think of Mr. G as my puzzle piece. He’s kind of rough around the edges and can be frustrating, but he fits perfectly into my life. I can’t tell you the number of people I know who’ve divorced their soul mates while I’m still hanging out with my puzzle piece. In fact, tomorrow it will be 25 years of happily wedded stuck together-ness.

What do you think of women who marry much older men? How much older is too old? And do you believe in soul mates?

45 Comments »

45 Responses to “He just became a fox.”

  1. LisaK on 13 May 2008 at 3:53 am #

    Rachel, great topic!
    This is something I quite often think about, above all when I see Hugh Hefner hanging out with his numerous young “Bunnies” (okay, he’s not married, but, nevertheless, the women pretend to be interested in an older man - and of course not in his money!).
    In general, I don’t think ill of women who marry much older men, because I always think yes, it might well be that they are in love. In most cases highly unlikely, but it MIGHT be. Ahem.
    So, just in case you’re in love, I would really say there doesn’t exist something like “too old”, but I, personally, wouldn’t want to have a man who has already lived when my parents weren’t even born…
    I also don’t believe in soul mates for absolutely the same reasons Rachel gave but I do love the thought with the puzzle piece. Maybe I should go out and find myself somebody I could puzzle, hehe… ;)

  2. Margaret Garland on 13 May 2008 at 5:58 am #

    IMNSHO, Hugh Hefner has always had the “ewww” factor going for him. A perpetual Peter Pan but not as cute. I’ve wondered what his first wife was like and what she looked like.

    Anna Nicole and old J. Howard were at an “ewww” all to themselves. Altho, she was a rather pathetic person. Like Jayne Mansfield before her. After seeing her mother in action, I can see why.
    I’m not sure how old is too old. Kathie Lee Gifford is 23 years younger than Frank. They’ve been married a long time. Maybe it’s more of how the personalities mesh than the years. I think I’d be bored to tears with someone who doesn’t remember the same things I do.

    However, Rachel, I agree that it’s mostly about the greed of the young women and the stupidity of old guys who can afford to buy them. I hope the women have savings in their own names because they are sure to get old and be dumped by the old fools. Love isn’t part of the equasion there.

    I like the puzzle piece analogy.

  3. Karen Hawkins on 13 May 2008 at 6:38 am #

    Rachel, great topic!

    I also felt sorry for Anna Nicole. I’ve always thought she sold herself in order to find the security her parents never gave her. A sad, sad, sad little girl who never found happiness.

    I’ve been married before and married for pure love, too. Love is not enough. it also takes maturity, consideration, empathy, respect and a bunch of other things that come from working on the relationship and not just pure emotion. Trust me on this — if love would have been enough, I’d still be married.

    I believe a ’soul mate’ is a choice. You find that puzzle piece and you work to become and stay soul mates, to keep that ‘fit’ going. It’s not something you get right off the bat, but a mutual decision to walk in the same direction, hand in hand, and to support and comfort each other along the way.

    I’m in a terrific relationship now. It didn’t begin all flowers and candy like the last, but it has a steady, quiet happiness that I enjoy each and every day. Great topic, Rachel!

  4. elsiehogarth on 13 May 2008 at 7:49 am #

    Rachel, Happy Anniversary!

    I have always liked and been attracted to older men. I never had the patience for men my age or younger because of the intellect or intelligence factor. Boys being boys and always wanting to play type thing. I was married to a man 16 years older then me. Life wasn’t perfect but we got along very well. Through a health scare, he went through a second midlife crisis and thought he was “superman” and just wanted to be out there like the Willie Nelson/Julio Iglesias song says “with all the girls he loved before” and any new one that came around. My husband was a cheat so I left him. It’s the best thing I ever did.

    I still love men and will always love them so I would say now at 51….I would be with a man at least 40 no older then 65.

  5. Sabrina Jeffries on 13 May 2008 at 8:14 am #

    Okay, I’m a sap and I DO believe in soulmates. To me, however, a soul mate doesn’t necessarily mean a man who sweeps you off your feet, but a man who is meant for you on some deeper level. But like Karen, I also believe that you have to work at the marriage part, even if you’re in love, even if you married your soul mate.

    I always went for older men, so that doesn’t bother me, but I do look twice when the gap is 20 or 30 years. I do have to wonder, not only about the woman’s motives, but the man’s. What can possibly have to talk about?

    I do think some of those relationships are genuine–women who are more mature, men who like being a mentor figure to a talented young woman. But that does seem rare.

  6. Nicole P on 13 May 2008 at 8:18 am #

    First of all Happy Anniversary Rachel!!
    Second, as far as the soul mates question, no I do not believe in soul mates. That notion to me indicates that you life is beyond your own control. I feel the same way about fate. I do believe in chemistry between couples, and I believe in Kharma.
    As far as the older man/younger woman thing, it is fine with me as long as they are both being honest about their intentions. But honesty is probably rare.
    And I can honestly say that if I were not already married to a man 2 years older than me, I would date men of any age. It just depends on the man.

  7. RachelG on 13 May 2008 at 8:20 am #

    I really don’t have a real problem with a big age difference. Be it the woman or the man who is older. What I have a problem with is people saying one thing when the reality is something else. Hugh Hefner is delusional. His money makes him a fox. Not his good looks or charm or wit. Same goes with Donald Trump. But at least Trump has some idea that it’s his money and power that attract women and not his stunning good looks and fine hair.

    rachelg

  8. doglady on 13 May 2008 at 8:31 am #

    I think the thing about these May December for money marriages is the dishonesty. If the whole marriage is based on a lie, what kind of marriage is it. Be honest. She married him for his MONEY and the security it affords. He married her for her HOOTERS, youth, etc. And if that works for them, great! Just be honest about it.

    I like the puzzle piece analogy, Rachel. But like KHawt I do believe in soulmates too. But being soulmates is a result of a mature choice and hard work. I was married to my soulmate for 14 years before he died and I have no doubt we would still be married had he lived. We were first and foremost FRIENDS. We genuinely enjoyed each other’s company. We respected each other enormously. The passion was there, but so was the comfort, the understanding and the idea that this guy “got” me, really got me in ways my family never have. Nobody would have picked a quiet, shy farmboy who never left Alabama before he met me and a world traveled, big mouthed musician as soulmates

  9. Claudia Dain on 13 May 2008 at 8:46 am #

    Count me as one who definitely believes in soul mates…though I have to wonder if we’d all agree on the definition of Soul Mate. I’m guessing not. Like Sabrina, it’s not that the relationship is perfect or “destined” but that you connect on some deeper level, something almost beyond words, and that the longer you’re together the more you realize the Soul Mate connection.

    I LOVE the puzzle piece analogy. For me, it fits perfectly into my description of a soul mate.

    When my DH and I first saw Family Man with Nicholas Cage and Tea Leoni, we heard the perfect description of it. “I choose us.”

    We say this often to each other. When we’re having conflict with extended family. When one of the kids is making waves. I choose us. It clarifies everything.

  10. Claudia Dain on 13 May 2008 at 8:48 am #

    Oh, and happy anniversary, Rachel! Married in May, what a gorgeous time of year to have a wedding. I was married in August…blistering!

  11. Julia London on 13 May 2008 at 9:26 am #

    Someone in my family married a rich older guy, and tried to pass it off as love. My husband and I joke that it is love with lots of new shiny things.

    I don’t believe in soul mates, per se, but I do believe in fate. Fate has taken me places I never would have gone on my own and introduced me to people I never would have known, including Jack London.

  12. Karen Hawkins on 13 May 2008 at 9:41 am #

    My mother used to say “Marry for love and love money!” My dad used to laugh so hard when she said that. It was their own personal joke because he was a broke college student when they married and was planning on being a farmer.

    My Soul Mate issues are these: First, I don’t believe there is just one person I could have a wonderful, long-lasting relationship with. There are good men out there and it makes sense there might be two, three or more who would be a close enough match to my interests, beliefs, etc that it could work. I do, however, believe that when you find someone of value who you really click with, then they are worth cherishing and committing to.

    Second, I don’t believe in the inevitability factor of a Soul Mate. To me, a Soul Mate is a joint decision — like Claudia’s “I chose us” (beautifully said, btw!) and not some unseen hand of fate.

    In a word, there’s gold in them there hills, but you’d better have a pan and a pick to find it and keep it!

  13. cail on 13 May 2008 at 10:11 am #

    i think that there is more than one person out there for you. and you’re lucky if you find one of them. i think i did. i hope i did. only time will tell.

  14. LauraR on 13 May 2008 at 11:10 am #

    Happy Anniversary Rachel & Mr G!

  15. Sheridan LA on 13 May 2008 at 11:12 am #

    First, happy anniversary!

    I think that while there are exceptions (as there are to everything) for the most part, the big age difference (like 20+ years) I think is more about fulfilling some mental issue.. whether it be security of money, someone to be like daddy or mommy to them. I have dated older men (15 years or so) and while we had a good time, there were just a few too many gaps in things - music, movies, books, perspective - that made it just not work. They wanted someone younger to help them recapture their youth, I was looking (at that time) for a sense of protection. I still remain friends with a few of them, but that is all that it could be.

    I am also in agreement with all of you who say “if you are in it for the money/trophy, etc, just be honest about it.” We all know the motivations behind the attraction, at least own up to it.

    The puzzle piece analogy is a great one…and more realistic then some interpretations of “soul mate” that I hear. :)

  16. Kim on 13 May 2008 at 11:13 am #

    Happy Anniversary Rachel and Mr. G!!

    I believe in soul mates! I do believe there is a person who is meant just for you. Now, having said that I don’t believe that a soul mate is the ONLY person you can love. Because as KarenH said, marriage takes a lot of work, a lot of give and take. No matter how much that person is meant for you if you both don’t work at it the relationship will end.

    As far as age factor, it really depends. I once had a serious thing for a man 21 years older than me. Trust me, he wasn’t rich so it wasn’t his money that attracted me. I think its the vibe the couple gives. Someone mentioned Kathy Lee Gifford. I never realized her husband was so much older. They seem to fit together. Now Anna Nicole and her grandpa/husband, that’s just ick.

  17. Sabrina Jeffries on 13 May 2008 at 11:26 am #

    Some men are hot no matter their age. When I was in grad school, we had this professor who had to be in his 60’s, at least. He was not what I’d call classically handsome either. But he had this wit and this amazing voice and this intelligence that made me shiver whenever I was in one of his classes. I think he ended up divorcing his wife for a woman in her 40’s, if I remember right.

    I tell you one thing–if he’d been single, I would SO have gone for him, even in my 20’s. I found him incredibly sexy. And you can be sure he wasn’t rich, not as a college professor.

    Of course he’s probably dead now, so going for him would have ensured me an early widowhood, but still. *G*

  18. Margaret Garland on 13 May 2008 at 11:51 am #

    “Of course he’s probably dead now, so going for him would have ensured me an early widowhood, but still. *G*”

    Isn’t that the whole idea, Sabrina? *smirk* Bad Margaret!

    Here’s some old guys who still have it: http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/actors_films_images/Sir_Sean_Connery_wearing_Scottish_kilt.jpg
    http://michaelscomments.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/w_picard.jpg
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Pierce_Brosnan_at_the_2005_Toronto_Film_Festival.jpg

    There are plenty others. Money be damned.

  19. anneriailin on 13 May 2008 at 11:52 am #

    Happy Anniversary Rachel and MrG! I hope you have many, many more!

    I agree that there is someone out there for everyone. Not necessarily a soul mate, per se. And not necessarily just one person. Love and passion can only take you so far. A relationship is alot of work and if only one person is working at it, then you have trouble. I wasn’t lucky enough to be able to hold my marriage together. I think people can grow apart, even if they live in the same house with one another.

    And I love the puzzle analogy. It’s so true!

    –dorothy

  20. colinfirthfan on 13 May 2008 at 11:57 am #

    Happy Anniversary, RachelG.
    First I have to say - I applaud Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher. Go Demi! She looks amazing!

    2nd: Anna Nicole/Grandpa was just to gross to contemplate. My DH is 6 yrs older than me and we are doing just fine. But I find 15 and 20 years a bit much. I also think TomKat is “Ewwww” coz I think they got married just for the publicity. Maybe they are in love now. What do I know??? Suri is cute baby.

    3rd: what is it with guys who date women who are their daughter’s age??? C’mon if you you weren’t Billy Joel/Kevin Costner.. do you really think that those 20 somethings would be after you???

    Lastly: I agree with various folks here - you work at being soul mates. I think love is a state of mind. When I have a big argument with my DH (we occasionally do blow up at each other) believe me - I love him very little at that point. But we get over it and move on!! :-)

    My 2 cents….

  21. colinfirthfan on 13 May 2008 at 12:00 pm #

    To clarify my last pt: I believe that if a person truly believes that they are in love - then they will be If they believe they aren’t then they “fall out of love”! Both people have to be fully committed to making a relationship work for it to be successful.

  22. Lisa H on 13 May 2008 at 12:08 pm #

    I believe in the “puzzle piece” analogy. I think if two people love each other and are both willing to do do a lot of unselfish giving, yet still remain respectful of themselves and each other, they can be soul mates. Some relationships seem to just soar from the get go, while others have to work on them their whole lives, either way, it takes work, love, self-sacrificing and respect.

    As far as the older/younger relationship, I think Catherine Zeta Jones and Michael Douglass are married for love. She is just as famous and beautiful as he is, they both seem to be not only great friends but wildly in love. That is one example (at least it appears to be) of when May December works.

    On the other hand, I am sickened by Anna Nicole Smith ordeal and Hugh Heffner (who in my opinion is just a dirty old man) I have great compassion for Anna Nicole who was a very ignorant girl with little self esteem and a habit of making bad decisions.

  23. Lisa H on 13 May 2008 at 12:08 pm #

    Happy Anniversary Rachel!

  24. Margaret Garland on 13 May 2008 at 12:12 pm #

    Yes, Rachel. In case I haven’t said it before now, Happy Anniversary. 25 years is one of those big ones. I never made it that far. You’ve managed to deal with just the one. Good on ya, girl.

  25. Ronlyn on 13 May 2008 at 12:36 pm #

    My baby sister was married (for a brief time) to a man older than our parents. He had (still has I suppose) a son older than she is! It always wiered me out a bit. Mainly because, what did they have in common? Sex…which from what I understand wasn’t that great. LOL. It just screams that someone is looking for someone to give them something or make them feel something (being a stud again, a daddy issue…something) and it’s not healthy IMO.
    As for soul mates: I’m not sure. My DH and I are a good match. We work well together, we love each other deeply, we respect each other and we are committed to our relationship and our kids, but I don’t really think he’s my soul mate. I like your puzzle piece analogy…I guess I think of it the same way.

    Happy Anniversary tomorrow!!

  26. doglady on 13 May 2008 at 1:26 pm #

    Oh and I almost forgot! Happy Anniversary, Rachel! Twenty five years of making the pieces fit is nothing to sneeze at!

  27. Karen Hawkins on 13 May 2008 at 1:37 pm #

    Btw, isn’t it funny how they’re calling all ‘older woman with a younger man’ a ‘cougar?’ As in “That Demi Moore is a Cougar now that she’s caught Ashton.”

    I laugh every time I hear that. It just seems so predatory and yet a guy with a younger woman is just called ‘lucky’ while the woman is considered a ‘gold-digger.’ Society has some interesting — and not very fair — rules about those things.

  28. Karen Hawkins on 13 May 2008 at 1:40 pm #

    Well . . . not ‘rules’ but ‘opinions.’ THOSE aren’t fair.

  29. elsiehogarth on 13 May 2008 at 1:57 pm #

    Colinfiirthfan….don’t forget Hulk Hogan dating a woman that’s his daughter’s friend that looks just like her. There’s a creep factor there. Dating someone that looks like your daughter.

    Book News….I just got back from Target and they have Karen Rose’s latest hardcover-Sream For Me at $11.89.

  30. Kim on 13 May 2008 at 2:21 pm #

    KarenH said: I laugh every time I hear that. It just seems so predatory and yet a guy with a younger woman is just called ‘lucky’ while the woman is considered a ‘gold-digger.’ Society has some interesting — and not very fair — rules about those things.

    Absolutely, K-Hawt! Isn’t it amazing that after all these years how much prejudice there still is against women? No Fair!

  31. colinfirthfan on 13 May 2008 at 2:29 pm #

    ElsieH - now that is VERY VERY creepy. I can’t imagine my dad dating my friend.
    I just puked in my mouth!

    Exactly KarenH! I object to people complaining about older women -younger guys but find it perfectly normal that 60 year old Jack Nicholson can date a 25 year old!!
    I believe in what’s good for the goose……

  32. Kay on 13 May 2008 at 2:32 pm #

    Rachael and Mr G–Happy 25th. We’re coming up on our 19th. I still can;t believe we’ve been married that long.

    I love the puzzle piece image. I like to think of my DH as my best friend. I’m not so sure about the soul mate thing. I think you can have a good marriage with the right person, but there may be more than one right person for you. It depends on who you are and where you are in your life.

    My DH is 5 years older than I am. I don’t see that as much of an age difference in adults. Over 10 years apart in age (older or younger) and I wonder how much you have in common. Since women, on average, live longer than men, a younger husband is not a bad idea. LOL

    I have a friend whose husband is 34 and she’s 44. They have three kids and are very happy (second marriage for her) but there are times he does seem much “younger” than the rest of use–when we’re talking about movies & music from HS.

  33. Kay on 13 May 2008 at 2:36 pm #

    elsiehogarth, I was at the store at 9 am–when it opened–to buy a copy of that wonderful book, SCREAM FOR ME. I am privileged to have a signed copy that I want ot keep pristine. :-)

    Enjoy reading it, and keep the lights on!

  34. Ellen on 13 May 2008 at 3:09 pm #

    As a long time faithful blogger of the Goddesses, if feel that I have earned the right to go slightly off topic after I answer your question.

    Soul mate vs. puzzle piece? A little bit of both. There are moments when together, we watched our son sleep, with no words spoken. When we make eye contact, there was no doubt my hubby shared a piece of my soul at that moment. However, when I hear him hoot at a TV Yankee game, or see how he can destroy a clean bathroom, I often ask how I ever fit him into my puzzle.

    Now if I may.

    I think Suri Cruise is a clone. YUP, I said it out loud. Now most would go with sperm donor, but I think Tom has the ego to want an exact replica of the girl bride he picked out with the right to deny outside help.

    Now back to our regularly scheduled blog.

  35. Suzanne Enoch on 13 May 2008 at 3:33 pm #

    I think I’m a left shoe. I have yet to meet the right right shoe, though I’m sure one or more exist. On the other hand, I like hopping just fine. *g*

    Happy anniversary, Rachel!

  36. colinfirthfan on 13 May 2008 at 3:46 pm #

    Ellen - LOLOLOLOLOL!
    You are totally right (should I add “as always” ?) He does have the ego for a clone!

    Did anyone see Tom on Oprah? I never watch Oprah (coz I am never home) but if someone did - please tell me - how did it go? I am assuming his b$tt was glued to the couch this time ;)

  37. Santa on 13 May 2008 at 3:49 pm #

    Congrats on 25 years of fitting together!

    Soul mates are fine it’s when people say their mates are their best friends. It seems like redundantly stating the obvious. I like my friend Jennie’s age old saying: Every pot has a cover!

  38. RachelG on 13 May 2008 at 4:17 pm #

    Thanks for the congrats everyone. When I think about it, I can’t believe I’ve been married for so long. 25 years with the same man is a long dang time. But each time I thought of trading him in, I figured I’d miss him too bad. Some days he annoys the holy crap out of me, but he truly is my best friend.

    rachelg

  39. Judy F on 13 May 2008 at 4:41 pm #

    happy Anniver Rachel and Mr G. 25 years is awesome.

    Some old/younger couples just give me the creeps. I think it has to do a lot with the couple. I went to the post office the other day had three boxes and three small envelopes. this older man came running up to open both doors for me. I think he was in his early 60’s very nice looking and polite. I can overlook several years for being treated nicely.

    I like Rachel’s puzzle pieces. I don’t think there is the “one” out there but someone that fits.

  40. PJ on 13 May 2008 at 5:45 pm #

    Happy Anniversary, Rachel. In these days of throwaway marriages, 25 years is something worthy of celebration.

  41. Kim on 13 May 2008 at 6:02 pm #

    Ellen–you crack my a$$ up!

  42. TinaLouiseF on 13 May 2008 at 6:59 pm #

    Congrats Rachel & Mr G on 25 years; may you last another 25.

    I haven’t really thought about soul mates.

    My best friend and her husband are 12 years apart in age. Next month will be their 14th Anniversary. I was more concerned that they had known each other less than a year before they got married then the age difference.

  43. Kathy/Cookiedough on 13 May 2008 at 7:13 pm #

    Happy Anniversary Rachel!

    My Aunt Nea married a younger man when I was a young girl. It was shocking in the 70’s to marry someone almost 10yrs younger.
    Now that she is in her late 70’s and he is 70- not so shocking.

    My sister will have 30 yrs with her lovey hubby come Christmas. They are the only soul mates I believe in.

    And I agree with Ellen on the whole Suri thing- she’s his mini me. snicker!

  44. PJane1031 on 13 May 2008 at 8:51 pm #

    Happy Anniversary, Rachel! I was present for my parent’s 25th, just not yet accounted for (was born 2 weeks later!!).

    I’m a bit of a hopeless romantic, so I’d love to believe in the idea of soul mates, but I also look at it more like Sabrina and some of the others have. I like the idea of a puzzle piece, but that’s not quite how I feel either. I think I’m a fairly independent, well-rounded person, and I can’t say that my life is ‘missing’ something just because I’m still single. I do want someone to ’share’ my life with, and enrich it beyond what I have now, but if that never happens, I’ll be O.K. with that too.

    I’m probably in the minority, but I actually like Hugh Hefner–NOT, however as he is now (he does strike me as bit of an old geezer with the ‘bunnies’ around him), but in pictures of him when he was MUCH younger, I thought that he was quite attractive then. I do feel that age is mostly a number, but when it gets into the ‘ewwww’ factor, I’d say that it’s too big of gap.

  45. Pesky on 10 Jun 2008 at 11:42 am #

    I think “soul mate” is a lot of pressure to put on a relationship. I’m more of a “He’s not just another 10 minutes out of my day” kinda person.

    Then of course I don’t have 21 years of stickedness under my belt. :D Congratulations!