A Rose by Any Other Name…
Dec 15th 2007
Sabrina JeffriesOn Writing!
… might smell as sweet, but why do we call it a rose, anyway? Why not rosal, like the Spanish? We stole plenty of other words from the Spanish—tornado and cargo and renegade—why not that one? And when we were stealing renegade, was it because the German word überläufer had too many umlauts (those double-dotted thingies)? Because that didn’t bother us when we stole plunder from the German plündern—we just hacked off the dots (and the final n, while we were at it).
And why are we missing words for the things I need to describe? Like those little pebbly things around a nipple—I couldn’t even find a medical term for them. Not that I WANT the hero laving the heroine’s sebaceous glands, but something nice like nipplets might be useful. Or breast pearls? Give me a word, people!
Then there are the obscure or obsolete words, perfectly good ones like fellowfeel (to empathize), groak (to watch people silently while they are eating, hoping they will ask you to join them), and my personal favorite, lapling (someone who enjoys resting in women’s laps). I think we have quite a few laplings in our books, and who can blame them? Laps are nice.
And don’t get me started on words that don’t mean what they ought to mean—stripling should have something to do with stripping. I’m just saying. But any stripling who strips is not as appealing as a stalwart type, as long as you remember that the latter has nothing to do with stalls and doesn’t necessarily have warts (we hope).
Yes, these are the things that keep me up at night—words and how they got to be here and why they aren’t always logical. Am I alone? Or do you too ponder the reasons for certain words? Is there an obsolete word you want brought back? Are there things you need a word for? Any weird words that have never made sense to you?
61 Comments »
61 Responses to “A Rose by Any Other Name…”
Karen Rose on 15 Dec 2007 at 4:50 am #
I for one am happy it’s “rose” and not “rosal.” Just sayin’.
I get annoyed with the whole plural issue in English. Mouse, mice. Moose, moose. Not mooses. What’s wrong with mooses? (A moose once bit my sister. Not really. It’s a Monty Python reference.)
The plural of noose is nooses. So why not mooses?
pri.r. on 15 Dec 2007 at 6:45 am #
omg.. have you read the book “rose by any other name” by Maureen Macarthy… twisted story to say the least.
FreshEChelle on 15 Dec 2007 at 8:09 am #
I’m going to have to comtemplate this today. “Extraordinary”? If something is even more ordinary that others, it must really dull. So why???
My favorite least-used word is “quotidien” (not sure if that’s the English spelling). Once we learned this in French class, I was off and running.
A word that should return to the vernacular - “often” with a SILENT T. Your newer dictionary may show “ofTEN” as an acceptable pronunciation but find an old one. Mob rules should NOT govern dictionary content. And “oftentimes”? I never thought about it till meeting a Brit who was stymied by it, she never heard in the UK.
Things I need a word for? One to ponder. As a Jeapordy/crossword puzzle/useless knowledge geek, thanks for the cool topic today! Schlepping on the treadmill will fly by now as I think of more great words (maybe a flowery term for my oversized rear). Good luck in your search for your nipple-related term.
Keri Ford on 15 Dec 2007 at 8:31 am #
Sabrina those little bumps are called Montgomery glands or areolar skin glands. Yes, I had to go look it up, but I remember reading about them when I was pregnant because sometimes they turn white and ‘pimpy’ looking and it warns you NOT to try and pop them.
Here’s a website I found >>
http://www.007b.com/nipple_gallery.php
So I guess your hero can lavish her montgomery’s, if they’d named them yet at that time!
Keri Ford on 15 Dec 2007 at 8:32 am #
hehee, they turn PIMPLY looking…not pimpy which would be something vastly different.
Ellen on 15 Dec 2007 at 8:45 am #
I think I’m gonna lose you on this one, but here goes.
Remember on the Muppet Show when the three cows and Animal would sing that song with no words. It sounded like this…
Ma nama na
Na Na Na Naa Na
Ma nama na
na na na Naa
Ma nama na
Na na na na na, na na na
Manana nana. Na Na Na Na Naaa
Well anyway, whenever I hear the word PHENOMENON, I break out into that song.
Er…um…I’ll go have my coffee now.
Ellen on 15 Dec 2007 at 8:57 am #
Ya know that “C” word we all love to hate. My son (source is 14!) told me it comes from the word country. As in a country lass. Nobles were basically allowed to fornicate with any country girl they wanted but had to keep the swords in sheath around the noble ladies. He even said Hamlet used the word with poor Ophelia, during his “get thee to a nunnery” passage.
I imagine Ophelia was quite pissed off.
Hamlet: “Get thee to a nunnery. Ye are no bit more than a country lass.”
Ophelia: (Raising the STOP hand in his face) “Oh No You Di Ent! You think you can show up here, shootin your mouth off about To be or Not to freakin be and use the C word on me? Oh no, man. It ain’t goin down dat way.”
Ellen on 15 Dec 2007 at 9:03 am #
I swear this is my final entry BEFORE the coffee…
But I have a true fondness for the word ALAS. It always makes any sentence more polished and poetic to my ear. I would like to see our Karen Rose use the word in one of her novels.
“Alas, the limb was so badly severed, it could not be reattached.”
See how that just flows off the tongue? Anybody?
Java time!
FreshEChelle on 15 Dec 2007 at 9:05 am #
Ellen, you found the hidden Shakespeare scrolls!
Keri, thanks for the weird link. This blog has really enlightened me in ways I never expected.
ilovetoread on 15 Dec 2007 at 9:08 am #
OMG, it’s way too early for me to try to “cipher” all this. Ellen honey, after that song you just gave us, you may need a lot of coffee!! Also, if you have time today to go to the forum and send me a message, please tell me what the “C” word is. I’m just not functioning well yet!! (hahaha)
KeriF, bless your heart, it must be really early for you also. Yes dear, those two words would have a vast difference of meaning! (rofl)
Sabrina, when I wake up fully and this blog finally soaks in, I’ll be wondering about virtually every word that I see, hear, or remember!!
Gals forgive me, it’s still too early for me after a very, very long day yesterday. God will have to forgive me for what I do to my husband later since he’s the one who woke me up to tell me it was Saturday morning!!
[b]Have a great Saturday everyone!![/b]
Ellen on 15 Dec 2007 at 9:28 am #
How bout we just pretent the C word is Coffee for now?
Ellen on 15 Dec 2007 at 9:29 am #
er..I meant PRETEND
ladydawgfan on 15 Dec 2007 at 9:56 am #
Ilovetoread,
just say “country” out loud and then say it again without the “ry” on the end and you have your word.
And I always pondered the phrase “rush hour.” Why do they call it “rush hour” when no one goes anywhere? Is it because everyone is rushing to claim their parking space on the highway??
Karen Rose on 15 Dec 2007 at 10:25 am #
I like ubiquitous. It sounds oily, but it’s not. And penal. Sounds dirty, but it’s not.
Ellen, I like your version of Hamlet better.
Sabrina Jeffries on 15 Dec 2007 at 10:34 am #
Keri, this is what happens when you neglect to do a search on “funny bumps,” LOL! I searched on everything related to breasts that was medical (so I wouldn’t get all that nasty porn). I swear, if I have to read another discussion using the word lactiferous, I might blow my brains out.
Ellen, we-e-ell, clever as your son may be, he’s wrong. Interesting concept though. But it actually seems to be derived from Latin. Go see http://www.etymonline.com/ … just put in a search on the word and you get the explanation. I’d put the direct link except that it contains the word.
But you’ll LOVE the Online Etymology Dictionary. I use it practically daily, along with my OED (which I hate hauling out because it’s huge).
Nicole Jordan on 15 Dec 2007 at 10:39 am #
I never have believed that a rose would smell as sweet if it was called “skunk.” A name makes a difference in how I think of things.
Case in point: I love daffodils, but hate the name. Daffodil sound so silly. Couldn’t they have come up with a better name than that???
Sabrina Jeffries on 15 Dec 2007 at 10:42 am #
Ellen, nonetheless I LOVE your Ophelia imitation. IMO, Hamlet deserves everything she can throw at him. What a dork! To be or not to be … puh-lease. Why on earth has an interior monologue contemplating suicide become the lodestone for literature? I’ll tell you why–because what makes “great literature” was decided by men, and they can all relate to the young man contemplating his navel. It’s also why Catcher in the Rye is so popular–it’s about the rite of passage … for MEN.
I confess I never got the popularity of either work (hey, topic for a new blog!). I mean, I adore Shakespeare, but I can’t stand Hamlet. Ophelia, you go, girl! Tell that self-absorbed son of a biscuit-eater to take a flying leap!
claudia dain on 15 Dec 2007 at 10:45 am #
I love words!! I love this post, Sabrina. Too fun. But have to say I love stripling in its present meaning since it sounds slender somehow. A mere stripling. Oooh, playing with words. Is anything better? Love lapling, that word needs to make a comeback. If we all work together…
Fresh–I agree wholeheartedly (love that word, so visual); often is pronounced OFFEN. What’s with this ofTen nonsense?
Words that used to be: Amn’t for ‘am not’. There’s something so colonial about that contraction.
On the ‘alas’ front, I also love ‘alack’. Alas and alack. Makes you want to break down in tears just hearing those two words.
claudia dain on 15 Dec 2007 at 10:47 am #
Nicole, daffodil in America is jonquil in Britain, or so I’ve heard. Sometimes the Yanks call them jonquils in the same vein as pronouncing the ‘t’ in often.
Yeah, I’ll be harping on that all day now.
Sabrina Jeffries on 15 Dec 2007 at 10:50 am #
Ooh, ooh, I LOVE ubiquitous. And I wish Supercalafragilistic were used more in conversation.
Fresh, I’ve never thought about the often “t”. I didn’t even realize some people voiced it!
Karen, you’re right about plurals. They’re insane! In my little former-academic brain, I know it’s because some of the words evolved from Old English, where plurals tend to be irregular, and some of them evolved from Norman French, where plurals have s endings, but it’s still annoying that they haven’t become regularized.
You know, English is really such a mongrel language. We steal bits from everybody. It’s one of its great strengths, actually.
Sabrina Jeffries on 15 Dec 2007 at 10:53 am #
Y’all’s mention of alas reminded me that one of my friends says she likes “any book with ‘lass’ in it.” I find that amusing, although I do like the word. In fact, I have to restrain myself to keep every hero from calling the heroine “lass.”
Lisa H on 15 Dec 2007 at 10:55 am #
A study was once conducted on Kindergarteners. They were given a list of several words without knowing the meaning and were asked at the end of the week which one was their favorite.
The little girls chose diarreah. Some make themselves princess diarreah and lived in the land of diarreah…
When you think about it without thinking of what it means, it is kind of a pretty word, it just sort of flows…
Lisa H on 15 Dec 2007 at 10:55 am #
Hee Hee
Sabrina Jeffries on 15 Dec 2007 at 11:01 am #
Oh, btw, when you read that etymological discussion, you discover that the Dutch have a lovely slang word for C: vleesroos, which means “rose of flesh.” So hey, it’s still all about roses, isn’t it?
Sabrina Jeffries on 15 Dec 2007 at 11:02 am #
Lisa H, that is TOO funny!
Ellen on 15 Dec 2007 at 11:16 am #
There was a girl in Niagara Falls called Urethra. I swear. She said the smart ass doctor suggested it to her teenage Mom.
Ellen on 15 Dec 2007 at 11:27 am #
Sabrina. Thank you SO MUCH for the link. I love reading about the origins of words. However, they do list so many possibilities, I don’t see why we can’t add our “C” word origin.
The way my boy explained it, it had more to do with the stage direction during Shakespear’s play. Supposedly, the word country was said in a way that stressed the first sylable, bringing knowing snickers from the crowd. At least that’s what his teacher told him. My mistake in classifying it as an origin.
By the way, when I checked out the C word, I discovered the word PUDENDA. I love that word. I have heard it called a puddy, but I always thought that meant puddy cat. When I typed in the word Pud, I spit my coffee laughing. Pud and Puddy. Too funny
Malady on 15 Dec 2007 at 11:27 am #
i love the word Malady, meaning an ailment, or ill.
i have even adopted as my alter ego. i also love the phrase, needs must. as in: I needs must use the privy. Or what about Necsient (adj.) not having knowledge; (noun) an agnostic …
agnostic? 1. (noun) one who holds that nothing is or is likely to be known of a god/ess or of anything but matieral phenomena. 2. of, holding, this theory.
so many words so little time.
i use my Pocket Oxford of current english, 1934 edition. it was my grandpa’s
claudia dain on 15 Dec 2007 at 11:34 am #
Hey, there’s one. Why does ‘harping’ mean nagging and not playing the harp?
I love English. It’s so weird.
Ellen on 15 Dec 2007 at 11:34 am #
Okay…I just put on my glasses. I meant Shakespeare and syllable. I wish Mt. Oly had auto typo check.
Ellen on 15 Dec 2007 at 11:37 am #
Nicole…you can call any Daffodil a Narcissus. That is the genus of the flower. Jonquil is actually a small species of flower withing the Narcissus genus.
Ellen on 15 Dec 2007 at 11:38 am #
damn. W I T H I N
Malady on 15 Dec 2007 at 11:41 am #
Harping is to do with Harpies, those *charming* greek monsters with a womans face and wings and claws. described as Rapacious.
FreshEChelle on 15 Dec 2007 at 11:51 am #
Alacrity is a cool word that doesn’t get enough airtime.
Have you read “Between You and I”? It’s a great little handbook on words and grammer that we frequently misuse when trying to be hypercorrect. It takes on the Brits for their frustatingly wrong pronunciation of vulnerable. “Vunrable” Really? This can’t be the Queen’s English. More like Queens, NY.
Sabrina, can’t wait to check out that link.
Marie Conley on 15 Dec 2007 at 11:59 am #
Has anyone read the new Cosmo? They have a whole section on Vajayjay. I want everyone to call it vajayjay. It is much better than any other phrase for it I’ve yet to hear. But only 40% of women feel this way.
I love etymology. I will become addicted to that source Sabrina.
Lisa H on 15 Dec 2007 at 12:16 pm #
We at Mount Oly have our own lauguage of sorts. For example to most people the term “fros” is a curly hairstyle that went out in the ’70’s. Here it means something else entirely…
Sabrina Jeffries on 15 Dec 2007 at 3:56 pm #
Vajayjay is certainly an interesting choice, but it makes me think of Hinduism, for some reason, even if it WAS Oprah who coined the term.
Fresh, I’ve never read Between You and I, but the phrase of that title is my worst mistake. I make it all the time. It bugs my critique partner, who considers it one of those errors where people are trying to sound better than they are. I just happened to have grown up hearing it, and have never purged it from my system, although I’m getting better. I only do it once a book now.
FreshEChelle on 15 Dec 2007 at 4:26 pm #
Sabrina, your “you and I” explanation was so genuine, I think you are allowed a few goes at it. Yes, it’s definitely the result of people overdoing their attempt to sound more intellectual (the book has a term for it that I can’t recall) and ironically, has the opposite effect. I felt so smug when I caught a Harvard grad using it. I was kind of a jerk about it. Lesson learned.
ilovetoread on 15 Dec 2007 at 4:26 pm #
Did Oprah say vajayjay? The first time I heard it was on Grey’s Anatomy. Love that show. Patrick is just a cutie-pa-tootie!!
Anyway, just wanted to let everyone know that since I last posted early this morning, I have had TWO naps because my husband “thoughtfully” woke me up to inform me it was Saturday morning. He is still a living, breathing individual since he did not wake me up from those naps! But darn I have thought of this blog pretty much ever since I read it this morning. Some of these are hysterical!
Ellen, keep up the great work on keeping us laughing at what you come up with!
Karen Rose on 15 Dec 2007 at 4:48 pm #
I’ve always said the T in often. I never thought about it before.
The one that always gets my goat (and where did that phrase come from??) is “irregardless.” ACK!
Sometimes I’ll say a word I heard Lisa Douglas say on Green Acres, like cosmeteticals, because DH and I would snicker over those. They’re stuck, deep in my brain where all the 60’s and 70’s sitcom lingo hangs out. But when they slip out, it’s embarrassing, LOL.
Karen Rose on 15 Dec 2007 at 4:53 pm #
My daughter is deaf and her voicing is very understandable. But sometimes she’ll say a word that I have to puzzle over - many times because she’s pronouncing it the way it’s written, not the way it sounds.
Case in point, she was talking about House (the TV show) and said “Hug” Laurie. I told her it was pronouced like “hue” and she gave me a look, like yeah right.
But given all the tug-of-war over Hugh Jackman, perhaps HUG is more apropos, yes?
Oh, that’s another word I like - apropos. It’s just fun to say.
Keri Ford on 15 Dec 2007 at 5:24 pm #
Coming back in here late…but, yep, Sabrina, I learned a while back if you’re trying to find something on the internet, then describe it in the google box like you’d tell a friend. That’s how other people type stuff in and that’s how the medical folks explain it.
oh, and I prounce the ‘t’ in often. didn’t know you weren’t supossed to. how do you say it without? ‘Off-inn’ (as in coffin but with no ‘c’?)?
cail on 15 Dec 2007 at 5:27 pm #
i really truly hate the word Vajayjay. Also, I’d heard it way before Oprah made it famous. Generally I call it it’s proper name.
I love the word Phantasmagoria. Has been one of my favorites since I learned it in 4th grade while studying Lewis Carrol. Although, what kind of cruel English teacher gives a 4th grader that word for a spelling test…
I also use a lot of words and phrases that you find in historic romance novels, but rarely hear in modern speech, purely because it is what I usually read. My old roommate used to point out to me whenever I used an antiquated phrase.
Alas and Alack make me think of the song in the musical Once Upon A Mattress. “Alas, Alack, a lass i lack…”
Marie Conley on 15 Dec 2007 at 5:58 pm #
Favorite word list:
Smitten
Dolt
Bloody as in the English use
Top of the mornin’
oh and as an Oklahoman I insist on leaving off the g’s in all words that shouldn’t have them like goin’.
In 2nd grade I was told that I sound British I haven’t lost it since. Right now I’m writing a 1886 Kansas romance. It’s fun trying to commonize my language.
It was set in Regency England, then I decided I don’t know squat about England and I don’t want to do the research to learn.
Oh and I love making new words like commonize.
Sabrina Jeffries on 15 Dec 2007 at 6:11 pm #
To be fair, Fresh, I could have gotten it from either of my parents, since way back in both their families, they’d had very genteel ancestors, who dropped in status during the Depression for various reasons (one was by choice, since my great-grandfather chose to become a minister). I never actually had grammar classes in school (it was the touchy-feely 60’s)–I learned everything by ear. I FINALLY learned the rules of grammar in grad school when I had to teach them, but I still tend to write and speak by the rules I heard growing up. Hence the very pesky “between you and I.”
KarenR, I had to laugh about the words from Green Acres. The dh and I have our own language, so much so that occasionally when I’m with other people I forget what the “real” word is and use the made-up one. I can’t think of an example right offhand, but if I do, I’ll post it. I’m so used to them that I forget they’re not real words.
Sabrina Jeffries on 15 Dec 2007 at 6:12 pm #
Commonize is a great word!
Kimberly W on 15 Dec 2007 at 8:19 pm #
Amuck. I really like that word. People don’t use it enough in my opinion.
FreshEChelle on 15 Dec 2007 at 9:07 pm #
Agreed, commonize is great newspeak! Cool one Marie!
Amuck? Love the moment in Hocus Pocus when one of them prances around singing “amuck. amuck. amuck. amuck. amuck” Now, I can only say this fab word 5 times in a singsong. A little Lisa Douglas and Sarah Jessica Parker.
Just an aside, it’s time for 20-something boys to foresake their fauxhawks! ENOUGH, boys! I’d call you men but you have to fix your hair to earn that title.
doglady on 15 Dec 2007 at 9:18 pm #
My friends in various countries say that English is hardest language to learn. Think about it. “Those drapes are hanging..” “We were hanging around the parking lot.” “They will hang him at dawn.” How is anyone supposed to learn that? Of course in Russian the word for floor “pol” is the same as the word for sex “pol.” Explains a lot about them doesn’t it? My youngest brother was only 3 when we moved to England. We lived there 3 years. Nearly 40 years later and he still says “Bloody hell!” when he smashes his finger with a hammer. Calls Michael Vick an “evil blighter.” LOVE that word. Says “bugger me!” and calls a car trunk “the boot.” He also had trouble in school for spelling “colour” “theatre” “splendour” etc. The teacher was nasty about it so my steel magnolia Mama went to the school and explained that my brother learned to speak and spell English where they “invented” the language so she needed to leave my brother alone. Does anyone else have to watch they don’t overuse certain
doglady on 15 Dec 2007 at 9:18 pm #
words when writing. For me it is “rather” and “quite.”
Marie Conley on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:06 am #
I insist on spelling grey, grey not gray. And it drives me NUTS to see Gray’s Anatomy. Not that I’ve seen it here, but…
It’s Grey’s people as the word should always be spelt. My spelling dictionary says spelt is not a word, but I don’t agree.
LauraR on 16 Dec 2007 at 5:08 am #
I had a physics teacher in high school that used ‘thru’ and showed me the dictionary ref. when I challenged the spelling. Love my dictionary. Was thankful to have one at hand when reading a microbiology text and found ‘ubiquitous’ *5* TIMES on one page.
Speaking of annoying common pronunciations, have you ever wondered why many many many people cannot pronounce ‘nuclear’ as written and substitute ‘nucular’ instead? And then there is ‘realtor’ pronounced as ‘relator’. ACK. Does this make anyone else nuts?
Malady on 16 Dec 2007 at 5:30 am #
Nuclear and Nucular is very awfull. i have come across people who pronounce pronunciation differently. (if that makes sense) is it proNUNciation or proNOUNciation? i thought it was nun.
they say noun. grrr.
Malady on 16 Dec 2007 at 5:32 am #
i use “very”, much too much. (hmm is that even a sentence?)
Ellen on 16 Dec 2007 at 2:15 pm #
Years ago I read (I think in Ann Landers) that FORTE was the most mispronouced word in the English language. She said if was pronounced FORT and not FORT TAY.
For a while I tried it her way, but got tired of people correcting me. lol
Ellen on 16 Dec 2007 at 2:17 pm #
um…mispronounced
Sabrina Jeffries on 16 Dec 2007 at 4:45 pm #
doglady, I’ve always had trouble with British spellings because of growing up in Thailand. We mostly got British literature there (even comics!), so I tend to use British spellings for everything. I also have trouble with pronunciation (which apparently can be pronounced either way, according to Wikipedia, Malady), because I was home-schooled in the boonies by my mother, who was too busy with the other 3 kids to pay me much mind. Since I was self-motivated (and the oldest), she would just give me the books and let me do my own thing. She realized the error of this when I began pronouncing things as they sounded–i.e., Plymouth as Ply + mouth. Inventory became “invent-ery.” It has taken me YEARS to catch them all.
Ellen, I read that about forte, too, but Wikidictionary says you can pronounce it either way. So there, Ann Landers.
Malady, I too overuse “very.” And “just” and “simply” and “softly” and a number of other adverbs. Thank God I revise a lot.
Dot C on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:12 pm #
You ladies would love a book titled “The Gilded Tongue”. It is words that have fallen out of used that can be used to express more ordinary things. I can’t produce an example because I am in shell shock from the retail holiday season. My brain can only be used to find the book that each and every customer has forgotten the title and author of, but knows that the cover may be blue, or has a heroine named Fern.
Sonja Foust on 17 Dec 2007 at 10:04 am #
I shouldn’t read this blog and comments at work because it makes me snort indelicately and my office is really quiet.
I use “just” too much and have grown to love Word’s find and replace option.
My favorite word is “emphatic,” just because I like it. I discovered it in 10th grade when I was writing an essay and had to describe my subject’s hair. Originally her hair was “bouncing limply” or something, but she was such an energetic character that the instructor suggested changing the description and I ended up with hair that was “bobbing emphatically.” So yay for emphatic.
Sabrina Jeffries on 17 Dec 2007 at 10:53 am #
Sonja, I LIVE by that find and replace option!
darkshire007 on 22 Dec 2007 at 1:08 pm #
the one I like is illywhacker (this applies to some people I know). but to say it…you get a look like you just fell off the turnip wagon!