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IS it a romance if there’s no happily ever after?

Jun 25th 2007RachelG
RachelGOn Writing!

There’s a debate going on within Romance Writers of America about whether or not a romance novel has to have a happily ever after to be considered a romance. To me, this is a no brainer. If the hero and heroine do not end up together at the end of a book, it’s not a romance. It may be a great novel, but it isn’t a romance. Gone With The Wind was great. It’s one of my favorite books– not a romance.
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So tell me what you think? Does a book have to have an HEA to be a romance? And what are some great books that are romantic but are not romance novels?

58 Comments »

58 Responses to “IS it a romance if there’s no happily ever after?”

  1. Kasey on 25 Jun 2007 at 8:56 am #

    I guess I always considered Gone With the Wind to be a romance because it ends with the promise that she will get him back and we all kno Scarlett to be stubborn enough to be able to do it.

    Otherwise I normally thing a romance does mean that the hero and heroine do need to end up together. I am just partial to happy endings and maybe that is why I beleive it. For some reason I just thought Gone With the Wind was some sort of exception the rule. But for me it is the only one that I can think of that qualifies in which the ehro and heroine do not end up together at the end.

  2. Elora on 25 Jun 2007 at 9:01 am #

    I like happy endings. If there isn’t one, it’s a tragedy.

  3. Caren Crane on 25 Jun 2007 at 9:04 am #

    I hate to mention Nicholas Sparks, but he’s famous for saying he doesn’t write romance. Of course, his books are romances up until he kills someone off, inexplicably, at the end.*g*

    Romances do end up with the hero and heroine together, IMO. If it is a story that goes beyond the romance and into their lives together, we generally call that women’s fiction or general fiction or family saga or whatever. But the *promise* of a romance is that there will be a happy ending with the couple together.

    Interestingly, my dh and older daughter and I watched “Object Of My Affection” last night. This is a wonderful, complicated movie with any number of romantic story lines. Is it a romance? Not really, in the traditional sense. The hero and heroine do find happy endings - just not with each other. And they do form a family, but they never marry. Wonderful, romantic non-romance!

  4. Susan K on 25 Jun 2007 at 9:13 am #

    I believe that in order for a book to be a romance it HAS to have a Happily Ever After. If it doesn’t I don’t want to read it.

  5. cail on 25 Jun 2007 at 9:17 am #

    i think there is a difference between a romance novel and a romance. GWTW is a romance, but not a romance novel. an RN has a HEA, romance implies a romantic theme or love affair, either happy or tragic. just my $0.02.

  6. Froggie on 25 Jun 2007 at 9:34 am #

    When I want to read, and I ALWAYS do, it’s a romance I reach for. If the story doesn’t end with a HEA, I’m greatly disappointed. I want my books to finish knowing the hero will love the heroine til the end of time. It’s just not right to deny me that!

  7. Karen Hawkins on 25 Jun 2007 at 9:38 am #

    Happy ending for a romance! Otherwise, it’s a saga or an epic. Or so I think!

    And Rachel, I’m with you — GWTW wasn’t a romance.

  8. Lismore on 25 Jun 2007 at 9:51 am #

    It just isn’t a romance if there is no HEA. I have to end the book with that ahhhhh feeling.

    Rachel, love the look of your new website.

  9. RachelG on 25 Jun 2007 at 10:05 am #

    I always have to have a traditional HEA when I read romance. I think there are many wonderful books that might end happily, but they aren’t romance novels. I see this debate very clearly. And no, if the heroine ends up with two heroes it’s NOT a romance novel. That isn’t even a particularly good fantasy. What? Double the laundry and two men asking, “What’s for dinner?” Sounds like a nightmare.

    Lismore, glad you like the new site. It’s still a work in progress as we had to get it up in a hurry. Hopefully all the links will work later this week

  10. epfeiffer1 on 25 Jun 2007 at 10:25 am #

    That’s a no-brainer - a romance has to have an HEA. End of story.

    (forgive the pun…)

    -Beth

  11. Julia London on 25 Jun 2007 at 10:37 am #

    Romeo and Juliet was a huge love story, but not a romance. I guess that is how I distinguish them in my head. A love story may end tragically, but a romance always has a HEA.

  12. Bethany Hamilton on 25 Jun 2007 at 10:42 am #

    I agree completely. No HEA = no romance. It should be a no brainer. If I come home with a book and the H/H don’t end up together, not only am I grossly dissapointed, but I also think either the marketing dept doesn’t have a clue what they’re doing - or someone at the bookstore isn’t making sure their books are stocked correctly.

    That’s also why I always read the last page first :D No unhappy surprises!

  13. Keri Ford on 25 Jun 2007 at 10:54 am #

    I think of GWTW as a tradegy. The whole time (according to the movie) she lusted and loved another man. Poor Rhett. Romeo and Juliet, tradgey yes, BUT also a romance. They did love each other for the rest of their days!! But absolutely HEA for all romances, otherwise it should be classified as something else.

  14. Claudia Dain on 25 Jun 2007 at 12:01 pm #

    I agree with you Rachel. The h/h have to end up together or it’s not a romance.

    GWTW, not a romance by my definition. In fact, I was convinced that S wouldn’t get Rhett back. But I guess this is what makes a book ‘great’—the fact that people can argue the outcomes and the characters forever!

  15. dbrown3400 on 25 Jun 2007 at 12:02 pm #

    I’m with the HEA and the authors who I know write romance. If the book is advertised as romantic suspense, or a romantic whatever, please have the romance be an integral part of the book, not just something thrown in as a token. I’ve reviewed books like that. If I want something else, I read mystery, thriller, etc.

    I have found in reviewing that I like books in categories I’ve never read before. I HAD to read the books, but I read science-fiction, and other categories, some quite good, that I never would have read otherwise. Recently, an historical fiction got a Top Pick. It was that good.

    I don’t understand some of the new categories. What is Urban Fantasy? Paranormal in the suburbs? Are there any people in it?

    Donna

  16. Brandy on 25 Jun 2007 at 12:50 pm #

    To me, a Romance must have a HEA, or it’s not a romance. It’s a work of fiction. I recently read a book (can’t remember the title right this second) that was touted as a romance, but in the end? The hero dies. WTHeck? THAT is not a romance!

  17. Suzanne Enoch on 25 Jun 2007 at 12:55 pm #

    Well, Julia, technically Romeo and Juliet do end up together. They just both happen to be dead. *g*

    I totally agree that in a Romance, a happily-ever-after is a must. In Romantic Fiction, an HEA isn’t a necessity — but somebody had better make the difference clear in the packaging. I don’t want to be picking up what I think is one thing and getting another.

    Personally, I HATE devoting hours and hours to reading a book, investing in two characters, and then not having them end up together. Not when the book is labeled a Romance.

  18. Jami Alden on 25 Jun 2007 at 1:13 pm #

    I’m with everyone here - if there’s not an HEA, it might be a love story, but it’s not a romance. And I like the HEA so much, I enjoy the much maligned epilogue, where you get to see the H&H in the future with adorable little kidlets romping around.

    Otherwise, it’s just a bummer, like that move the Notebook.

  19. Julia London on 25 Jun 2007 at 1:16 pm #

    You;re right, Suzanne. Romeo and Juliet got the Ever After without the Happily. HA

  20. Julia London on 25 Jun 2007 at 1:19 pm #

    I wrote a book years ago, when I was very green about romance novels, and in the epilogue, I showed the couple at the end of their lives, when one of them died. My intent was to show that they lived a very long and happy life together.

    ohmigod, the mail I got for that one! STILL get. Its about 50-50 — the ending moved some people, who appreciate their long and happy life together. The others hate me to this day. Many said they would “never read a book by Julia London again,” that I had “violated the reader’s trust,” and lots of stuff like that. Those who were civil about it said they preferred that the couple live happily in their minds forever, and not be weighed down by the reality of life. On the other side of the coin, those who were touched by it were glad to see that love endured for fifty years and didn’t peter out.

    Needless to say, I don’t do that in epilogues anymore :-)

  21. cookeemama on 25 Jun 2007 at 1:20 pm #

    There’s nothing I can really add to all of the above. There is a difference between a romance and a love story to me. I want that HEA because real life so seldom offers one.

    Sheesh! If I wanted to read a story as messy as life really is, I’d pick up a non-fiction.

    I stopped reading Sparks after “The Horse Whisperer” because it made me so mad. And the movie version of “Message in a Bottle” was the pits. I think he hates love and romance.

    I surely do hope publishers are not going to start messing around with my romance novels in order to “make them more realistic and comtemproary”. Yuck Spare me, please.

  22. SuzyQ on 25 Jun 2007 at 1:24 pm #

    When I read a romance, I expect a HEA. I’m with you, Suzanne, if I’m spending hours reading a book, they better end up together!

    Rachel - you’re new site looks great!

  23. SuzyQ on 25 Jun 2007 at 1:25 pm #

    opps! I meant your not you’re.

  24. SuzyQ on 25 Jun 2007 at 1:25 pm #

    Oh forget it! My fingers just don’t want to type today.

  25. zambonigirl on 25 Jun 2007 at 1:27 pm #

    I’ll agree with everyone who says that a book without a happy ending is a tragedy. I like escapism as much as the next person when it comes to novels. If I wanted reality, I’d read non-fiction, or a novel by an author who deals with reality. ‘A Long Way Down’ by Nick Hornby immediately comes to mind for a book with a hopeful, but not necessarily happy ending. It’s a great book, though.

  26. ladydawgfan on 25 Jun 2007 at 2:30 pm #

    For me, a romance novel absolutely has to have a HEA or it isn’t a romance novel, it’s just a huge waste of my time!! I loved GWTW, but as others have said, while it is a romance, it is NOT a romance novel. There is just too much ambiguity in Scarlett and Rhett’s relationship at the end.

    Years ago, my sister read what was allegedly a romance novel - the heroine was trying to decide between two “heroes.” In the end, she couldn’t decide, and so ended up with neither, choosing to live her life alone. After I found this out, I didn’t even bother to start reading the book (I can’t even remember the title or author). I didn’t want to waste my time or emotions on a story that didn’t end with a HEA between the heroine and the hero - because in the end, they should end up with SOMEONE, shouldn’t they??

  27. Susilien on 25 Jun 2007 at 3:01 pm #

    Romance or Romance Novel…Should be the same thing. All of them should have HEA. Women’s Fiction or General Fiction is everything else. I think that anyone who picks up a book in the “Romance” Section of a book store should be guaranteed an HEA or the book store should take the book back. Now I know that there will be people who disagree with this if they work in a book store, but that is what it is all about folks.

    I also love Sci-Fi/Fantasy and believe that a good many of those books belong in the Romance section and all of the Paranormals that don’t have an HEA belong in the Sci-Fi section.

    I must admit that an ambiguos (sp?) or implied HEA is sometimes ok. I just prefer it spelled out.

    JL… There is nothing wrong with showing that your people have had a long and loving life together… I like Nicholas Sparks books… but that dosen’t belong in the Romance Section. I still love your books anyway.

    Susie

  28. cousin it on 25 Jun 2007 at 3:03 pm #

    Yes, a book has to have a HEA to be a romance. I can deal with the happy for right now also. I like other types of books like horror, sci/fi, non fiction ect but I like to have an idea of what might happen to the characters I might begin to care about in a story. It kind of irritates me when the book is packaged like a romance(partially people on the cover with mood lighting), the publisher is a romance publisher, and even the author has written excellent romances in the past but the book has no HEA and sometimes very little romance either.

    Some great books that I have read recently that are romantic but are not romance novels are- Mistress of the Art of Death by Ariana Franklin, The Time Travellers Wife by Audrey Niffenegger and the Uglies Trilogy by Scott Westerfeld.
    I love GWTW too and agree- not a romance.

  29. Stacy S on 25 Jun 2007 at 3:22 pm #

    I agree with everyone else. It’s gotta have a HEA. That’s one of the reason’s I read romance.

  30. Nicole Jordan on 25 Jun 2007 at 3:28 pm #

    For me, a happy ending is a MUST to be a romance. I’ve liked a lot of books that don’t end with the couple winding up togther (many of the thrillers I read have romantic elements) but for romance, it’s gotta have a pair-bond at the end.

    And Julia, part of the happily ever after for me is ending BEFORE real life like death and taxes and kids get envolved, lol.

    NicoleJ

  31. catslady on 25 Jun 2007 at 3:34 pm #

    OMG looks like I have to stand alone here lol. I don’t have to have a HEA - sorry. I think a romance is still a romance - just cause someone may die or they don’t get together at the very end doesn’t mean the book wasn’t still about romance. sorry don’t mean to be difficult lol. I mean eventually everyone dies so does that mean that if you follow a story until the end it can’t have been a romance? Obviously, most stories end before then because they usually only tell you a small portion of the lives they’re talking about but I still think if you’re talking about any kind of romantic emotions - it’s still romance.

  32. twolilhahas on 25 Jun 2007 at 3:58 pm #

    When I buy a typical “romance novel” I’m looking for passion and commitment for all time. This means, show me a happy ending in which the hero and heroine are together forever. GWTW has a great love story in it, but the book is actually about the heroine and her life. It’s not about how she ends up with her hero, it’s about how she ends up. Romeo and Juliet isn’t about their love so much as it’s about their actions. I guess that really sums it up for me. The difference is in the central focus of the story. A romance novel centers on the love story. A traditional fiction novel centers around something else, though love may have a large role in the story. Of course, I’m not an avid reader of anything other than romance novels, so maybe I’m wrong. lol I have to have my happy ending or it isn’t worth my time.

  33. Judy F on 25 Jun 2007 at 4:07 pm #

    I agreee with you all. It must have a happy ever after to be a romance. For me that is one of the main reasons I love romance novels.

  34. MizMacgyver on 25 Jun 2007 at 4:44 pm #

    Rachel, your page is very cool.
    I agree with the majority, gotta have the happy ending, or it isn’t a romance.

  35. Julia London on 25 Jun 2007 at 4:45 pm #

    Well, Susie and Nicole, I learned my lesson. My romances now end with HEAs before real life creeps in :-)

  36. ArkansasCyndi on 25 Jun 2007 at 5:01 pm #

    Put me in the HEA column for a romance novel.

    I was reading a book this week that was “woman’s fiction”. Not a romance. It was a story about a widow, her aging mother, and her teenage daughter. There is a romance and even an HEA, but the love story was not the paramount storyline.

    So, in addition to a romance having to have an HEA, IMHO, the main storyline has to be the romance, supported by subplots, maybe a mystery subplot. If you removed that subplot, the story is still about the romance. Remove the romance storyline, the story falls apart.

    Now, if I can take my own advice as I write! LOL

  37. colinfirthfan on 25 Jun 2007 at 5:12 pm #

    Romances have to have an HEA!!

    I too love epilogues where they show the kidlets etc..

    Julia, that is a funny story… which book was it? I read your first few books years back and I don’t remember that epilogue at all.

  38. Sabrina Jeffries on 25 Jun 2007 at 5:20 pm #

    Hmm, I have to think about this. Well-done tragic love is very moving to me. I still think Romeo and Juliet is about the love relationship, how it transcends all boundaries. And I will call Sommersby a romance until the day I die, even though so many romance lovers hate the end.

    At the same time, when I pick up a genre romance novel, I expect a HEA. That’s why I’m reading. I’m pretty rabid about it. So I guess I fall into the camp that a romance has to have a happily ever after (well, with the exception of Sommersby).

    But I don’t agree that a threesome can’t be a HEA, Rachel. I LOVED Menage by Emma Holly and still do. I think those three could be together forever, even if only two of them are actually married. Or maybe it’s just my tendency to think more is better. ;-)

    BTW, Nicholas Evans wrote the Horse Whisperer; Nicholas Sparks wrote all those other “love stories,” as he calls them, to distinguish himself from the dreaded “romance” tag.

  39. twolilhahas on 25 Jun 2007 at 5:21 pm #

    I’m mixed on epilogues. I do like them, but at the same time, it usually ties the couple down with real life. So many times you read a larger than life romance where the hero and heroine are amazingly free and wild and then boom, they have kids and the whole white picket fence thing. It’s a little disconcerting. You want them to be happy, and having kids definitely fulfills that, but at the same time, you want them to remain free and wild and having kids sort of stifles that. lol So, I like them and I don’t, but whatever you do, don’t kill them off in the epilogue, please. :)

  40. twolilhahas on 25 Jun 2007 at 5:22 pm #

    I’ve never read one about a threesome. I’m really into fidelity. I’m not sure I could handle a threesome story. lol

  41. Sabrina Jeffries on 25 Jun 2007 at 5:26 pm #

    Julia, you really cracked me up with that story of the epilogue. Years ago, for one of my Deborah Martin books I wrote an epilogue with the heroine going through postpartum depression and being soothed by the hero. It was a real downer, but fortunately I was talked out of it by Rexanne. I wish she’d talked me out of the entire book (I wrote it while my son was being diagnosed–what can I say?), since I think it pretty much tanked my Deborah Martin career (it started with the heroine watching her mother hang–I don’t know what I was thinking).

    So I sympathize. :-) Hey, at least we learn from our mistakes. And why is it that things I would never have liked myself in a romance I was just so eager to put in when I was writing one? I blame that pesky grad school education.

  42. Carly Phillips on 25 Jun 2007 at 6:16 pm #

    I started writing romance because of the HEA. I only go to the romance section because of the HEA. Where do I write to let RWA know how I feel about the HEA?
    Carly!
    Good topic, Rachel.

  43. Karen Rose on 25 Jun 2007 at 6:43 pm #

    Chiming in late. HEA or bust. I had this conversation with my oh-so-wise (NOT) creative writing class two years ago. They insisted that R&J was a romance because it had LOOOVVVE. If a story ended with an HEA it was trite and predictable. Gag me.

    I blasted them with both barrels (a metaphor!). Teenagers think they know everything… mutter, mutter.

    Trite and predictable have NOTHING TO DO with a HEA. A romance has an HEA like a mystery has a solution and horror has a fright and a western has a cowboy. It’s called GENRE and it’s what separates bookstore shelving from library shelving. Bookstores are arranged by genre and then ABC. Libraries, just ABC.

    Genre is defined by the readers’ EXPECTATION. If you read a mystery, you EXPECT a solution. If you read a romance you EXPECT a HEA. If you read horror you EXPECT to be um…horrified. This is not rocket science.

    (I’m not finished yet.)

  44. Karen Rose on 25 Jun 2007 at 6:44 pm #

    Trite and predictable define HOW A STORY IS TOLD.

    A successful writer meets readers’ EXPECTATIONS in a way that is UNEXPECTED. It’s the art. It’s what makes a book fresh and new.

    HEA? Yes.

  45. Karen Rose on 25 Jun 2007 at 6:46 pm #

    Oh, and libraries are free. That’s also a big difference. And if it’s nonfiction, the library has that weird Dewey Decimal system I never quite puzzled out.

    Now I’m done. Whew. Glad to get that off my chest.

  46. Julia London on 25 Jun 2007 at 6:53 pm #

    Colinfirthfan, it was Secret Lover.

    Sabrina….Sabrina…..oh my. Thank goodness for friends like Rexanne. Too bad I didn’t know her then. The funny thing was my editor was as green as me. Neither of us saw the problem with it, LOL

  47. cousin it on 25 Jun 2007 at 7:31 pm #

    Wow Karen! Thanks for sticking up for us romance readers. Libraries are not exactly free, your hard earned tax dollars at work.
    I work at a library and direct women and men to romances every day because people need the HEA….and a little bit of vicarious sex thrown in doesn’t hurt either:)

  48. Karen Rose on 25 Jun 2007 at 7:38 pm #

    A lot of vicarious sex is even better, :-)

  49. twolilhahas on 25 Jun 2007 at 7:44 pm #

    Go Karen! :) I’m with you 100%.

  50. Kay on 25 Jun 2007 at 7:49 pm #

    All romances are love stories, but not all love stories are romances, IMHO.

    Karen, we had the great fortune of having a new library built in our ‘burb a couple of years ago. Someone at my local library had the good sense to make sections for romance, SF, mysteries, horror and westerns. :-) There is even a place for new releases. I get to IGNORE the dewey whatsit.

    I looooove libraries, and they are one way I will say I approve of how my local tax dollars are spent.

    Never fear, goddesses, I spend more than my share at the bookstores, too. LOL

  51. Karen Hawkins on 25 Jun 2007 at 9:22 pm #

    I like the line of ‘romance novel’ v. ‘romantic novel.’ Makes a lot of sense to me. GWTW was a romantic novel, but not a romance novel per se.

    Kay, that new library sounds HEAVENLY! As for the Dewey Decimal System, it’s a torture system devised by a group of radical librarian/dominatrix from the Victorian era who wished to confuse the average reader and reduce them to standing in line at the info desk to ask “Excuse me, but where is …(fill in blank)” so the librarian.dominatrixes could sneer and say in a brutal tone, “Don’t you KNOW the Dewey Decimal System?”

    Personally, I wish they’d group by genre and begin each section with the Hs which would ah, put my books first.

    Oh yeah. I like that!

  52. Atomic on 25 Jun 2007 at 10:15 pm #

    “Romeo & Juliet” was considered a tragedy.

    Not a Tragedy/Romance.

  53. Lori on 25 Jun 2007 at 10:58 pm #

    Just getting home from work, so coming in late to the conversation. Definitely need a HEA to be considered a romance. Doesn’t matter what the sub-genre within romance is - withouth the HEA they can’t consider it a romence. Period.

  54. Dot C on 26 Jun 2007 at 12:21 am #

    I can come up with a great example to fuel this debate. For those who have read the Outlander Series by Diana Gabaldon….Romance or not? As a bookseller, I’ve seen the series go back and forth between Fiction and Romance any dozen number of times. Currently, it seems to be housed in Romance, which doesn’t sit well with me. I think it is romantic, even though Diana tortures the shit out of her characters. But somehow, it isn’t really a romance…more of a work of historical fiction. Maybe the books are just too freakin massive to qualify as a bonifide romance. I think another important thing about romances, is yes lots of hot filthy sex, but the book shouldn’t be able to hurt you if it falls on you while you are reading in bed.
    I can take loose ends in a romance, and even perhaps a questionable ending IF there is a firm confirmation that another book in the series is coming. And to all the writers on this blog, BTW, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR FINISHING ANY SERIES YOU HAVE STARTED!!

  55. Caren Crane on 26 Jun 2007 at 9:13 am #

    but the book shouldn’t be able to hurt you if it falls on you while you are reading in bed.

    OMG, Dot C, I almost spewed coffee out my nose when I read that line! And, having dropped more than one tome on my abused feet, I completely agree with you. I really would put Gabaldon more in the “epic family saga” realm, given how interminable the series has been. Loved the first four books, but she kind of lost me after “Voyager”. *g*

    By the way, Suzanne Enoch, I was reading your latest whilst on vacation in Switzerland. In our baby chalet, there was a cute little shelf on the wall above the bed where I stashed your book. I went to pull it down one night and forgot I had placed my watch on top of it. The watch thunked me in the forehead and I had a sore goose egg the rest of the trip. But I’m sure it wasn’t your book’s fault! *g*

  56. Sabrina Jeffries on 26 Jun 2007 at 12:36 pm #

    Maybe we should do a blog about the dangers of reading–paper cuts, books thumping us on the head, tripping over books … lots of possibilities. :-)

  57. TinaLouiseF on 26 Jun 2007 at 8:34 pm #

    Julia, I think it was one of the first of yours I read. If I remember correctly, I cried at the ending. Good story.

  58. Wendy on 28 Jun 2007 at 11:33 pm #

    Ok, if the couple not getting together is a romance, then I want to see a happy tragedy with a plesant ending, lol.